4.1 rib 50hp tiller steer

ian parkes · 31 August 2008, 23:24

Iam thinking of buying a bare 4.1m rib and fitting a 50 2 stroke tohatsu tiller steer .
The rib is rated for up to 120 kg motor and 40hp . Ok I know all the advice about insurance etc but the tohatsu only wieghs a shade over 70kg, and I expect the spec has been downgraded for 4 strokes . I expect a steering damper would be needed

I was after a surfcat but this package will work out 3k cheaper and has a lot more payload as I really want to use the boat for camping and often carry more than 3 poeple .
Also compared to a similar sized hard floor sib its slightly lighter and has the advantage of a rigid hull , and a decent anchor locker .

To me it seems more practical than a sib , better ride and handling , more power , no chance of a punctured floor etc .

Now tell me what I have missed please

Nos4r2 · 31 August 2008, 23:30

Whats the hull shape? Got any pics?

I think you'll regret a shallow V 4m if it gets a bit choppy.

Downhilldai · 31 August 2008, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

Now tell me what I have missed please

You can't roll it up and chuck it in the back of your transit

ian parkes · 01 September 2008, 00:40

yes its a pretty shallow v but Iam comparing it to a sib not a rib really , anything bigger and i can't pull it up a beach on some transom wheels .
I really want a boat I can launch virtually anywhere
I also thought about the packing away in the van advantage of a sib , and i don't think a 4m plus hard floor sib will ever get used without its trailer as it would pretty much fill the van
The rib is bit lighter than a 4.3 sib and with the tubes deflated would not be much bigger than a canoe and could easily go on a roofrack .

Iam more concerned it could be a bit of a handful with the 50 on a tiller steer

Nos4r2 · 01 September 2008, 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

yes its a pretty shallow v but Iam comparing it to a sib not a rib really , anything bigger and i can't pull it up a beach on some transom wheels .
I really want a boat I can launch virtually anywhere
I also thought about the packing away in the van advantage of a sib , and i don't think a 4m plus hard floor sib will ever get used without its trailer as it would pretty much fill the van
The rib is bit lighter than a 4.3 sib and with the tubes deflated would not be much bigger than a canoe and could easily go on a roofrack .

Iam more concerned it could be a bit of a handful with the 50 on a tiller steer

Go on...you know you really want an SR4

ian parkes · 01 September 2008, 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Go on...you know you really want an SR4

I don't honest , I really want something I can pull up the beach that will carry camping gear but still have enough power to be fun . The vids of the guys here exploring and camping in the Summer Isles etc have made me feel iam missing out with the bigger boat.

Downhilldai · 01 September 2008, 00:57

So what make is the 4.1 RIB?
Does it take a std or longshaft motor?

ian parkes · 01 September 2008, 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

So what make is the 4.1 RIB?
Does it take a std or longshaft motor?

rib is made by lodestar takes a short shaft motor .
The rib is very similar to a small valiant but seems to have a few better features like pressure relief valves and handles for re boarding after swimming . Its no top end rib but seems a lot tougher than any of the sibs I have looked at

Downhilldai · 01 September 2008, 01:27

ex-RNLI Mariner 40 would also do the trick.

In the early-mid 1990s, Avon made the Supersport 4.00m range of shallow V hull ribs, rated to 40hp (a rigid bottom variant of the Sportsboat SIB made at that time). This Lodestar sounds like the same sort of boat.
Good compromise if you can get a boat with a decent deck area for carrying kit, yet light enough to pull up the beach, so no concerns with mooring it overnight.

craigdavis · 01 September 2008, 16:50

If your looking for a steering dampner i would try this one i have one on my Zapcat with 50 tohatsu you can let go at 50mp and go dead strait. Amazing bit of kit my arm never gets tried.

http://www.vortex-racing.co.uk/catal...roducts_id=125

Tell them that i recomended it to you if you speak to them

ian parkes · 01 September 2008, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

ex-RNLI Mariner 40 would also do the trick.

In the early-mid 1990s, Avon made the Supersport 4.00m range of shallow V hull ribs, rated to 40hp (a rigid bottom variant of the Sportsboat SIB made at that time). This Lodestar sounds like the same sort of boat.
Good compromise if you can get a boat with a decent deck area for carrying kit, yet light enough to pull up the beach, so no concerns with mooring it overnight.

The guy in the chandlers also compared it that same avon, he used to own one . I went in for a really good look at the boat today and was pleasantly surprise by the quality . The v of the hull is the actally quite deep at the stern , i would have thought the ride would be much better than a similar sized sib
Finding the right motor is the problem , can't find anything but the 50 tohatsu new or used ,I would consider a mariner 30 or 40 but the 30 could be a bit underpowered with a load although far more portable .

ian parkes · 01 September 2008, 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigdavis

If your looking for a steering dampner i would try this one i have one on my Zapcat with 50 tohatsu you can let go at 50mp and go dead strait. Amazing bit of kit my arm never gets tried.

http://www.vortex-racing.co.uk/catal...roducts_id=125

Tell them that i recomended it to you if you speak to them

Cheers Craig looks like a superb damper but the price

I was considering a motorcycle steering damper . I certainly don't like the sound of the car shock absorber rustin away on the back .

Out of interest if you do cruise with the tohatsu 50 whats it like on fuel , no point in going for portability if I need to carry a dozen fuel cans

zodiacman · 01 September 2008, 22:26

Why a 50hp? you want to race? I have a 25hp and a 40 hp I always take the 25hp touring. You wouldnt go touring on a GXR1000 would you. I can carry the 25 up the beach on my own no chance with the 40 If you want to go multi day touring you need lightness and fuel economy speed is'nt important. I can cruise at 15kn fully loaded with a weeks gear. going any faster in anything other than flat calm with all the gear in is no fun at all in a shallow hulled boat. If you are serious about the touring pm me I will help you anyway I can.

prairie tuber · 03 September 2008, 05:56

Any chance of sea trialling this boat and comparing it to that of a 4.1 Ceasar surfcat or a Gemini GRX 420? I think you'd be pretty surprised at the results.

Depending on how this boat handles in choppy conditions, Zodiacman be very correct in his recommendation of a 25 hp vs. a 40 hp. I've had a 25 hp carb'd 2 stroke (pre-mix) and now a 40 hp carb'd 2 stroke autolube. With the 4.2m zodiac I once had, the 25 hp provided more than enough speed to bounce me out of the boat in choppy conditions.

With a cat hulled SIB, you'll find yourself craving a whole lot more speed than a 25 hp would could provide. I currently have an 18 year old Yamaha 40 hp 2 stroke, which has been absolutely reliable. I have ascended a various rapids with the 40 hp that would have been impossible to go up with the 25 hp. If it were a 50hp, (which is the same weight as my 40), that would be way better. If I could get my hands on a Tohatsu carb'd 2 stroke 50 hp, I'd snap it up in an instant.

For reference I get 55-60 km from a 20 litre gas can, and usually take about 4 of these cans for most weekend outings.

What type of range are you hoping for with your boat and motor setup before having to refuel?

spartacus · 03 September 2008, 08:54

It would be worth considering the Zodiac Futura Mk III HD. It's a SIB, but with the aluminium inset floor - it's durable enough to take the knocks. With a set of transom wheels it would be possible to haul up a beach.

Personally I hate the look of the fitted wheels. What I used to do was use a couple of polysterene or inflatable fender buoys (see attached), and place under both sponsons. Simply pull and away you go. As the buoys runs under the tube sponsons, remove them and place further forward towards the bow.

The Futura is rated to 50hp, which is more than enough power-to-weight ratio for carrying loads and passengers.

ian parkes · 03 September 2008, 21:02

well I had a futura mk 3 for a while with a 25 yam 2 stroke . It was an air floor but it didn't really perform as i had hoped . Probably a much better boat with a solid floor and the smaller MK2 .

The problem with small engines for sibs is that there just isn't any . The current 30 hp 4 strokes are all very heavy, heavier than a tohatsu 50 by quite a bit .
The dealer was going to let me try a new suzuki 25 on the lodestar but he agreed with me that it would be underpowered with any load .
Having the chance of a brand new Tohatsu 50 at a very good price was too good to miss . As for fuel we will have see just how good or bad it is ,
I shall keep an eye out for a 30 mariner , or at least try one if I can as i agree with the small engine idea for touring and carrying less fuel , however I wouldn't want a boat that falls of the plane on the backs of waves , i have experienced that with a loaded sib and its a pain and a little dangerous .
I felt the 25 yam on my Futura was pretty thirsty for the speed it did , probaly because it was working hard all the time , hopefully a bigger motor pushing a hard hull that doesn't reach a wall at about 20kts will do the job .

prairie tuber · 04 September 2008, 05:00

I forgot to mention that I consume pretty much the same amount of fuel with the 40 hp as I did with the 25 hp over a given distance. It's just that the 40 gets me there more quickly.

GraemeCooper · 04 September 2008, 08:05

Ian - why not go for a compromise and fit a Tohatsu 30 2 Stroke - gives you just that extra power - and weighs less than a Mariner 25 4 Stroke.

prairie tuber · 04 September 2008, 14:05

The carbureted 50 Tohatsu 2 stroke makes alot of sense. It only weighs 150 lbs, which is quite manageable with launching wheels or a beach cart. With regard to fuel efficiency, the carb'd 50 hp Tohatsu 2 stroke only consumes 4% more fuel while at WOT (which is what I'm at about 90% of the time when touring), than the TLDI 50 hp Tohatsu (which weighs well over 50% more when you factor in the required battery).

For travelling any significant distance over big open water with my SIB, a 25 or 30 hp would be marginal. The 40 hp is good, a 50 hp would be fantastic. Apparently BRP is coming out with an ETEC 30 hp engine which is supposed to have way more grunt than any of the other 30s out there, and should weigh somewhere around 150 lbs. If it has thrust that is comparable to my 14 year old 40 hp Yammie, that would also be worth considering if the fuel economy is substantially better.

ian parkes · 04 September 2008, 22:03

as i said ther are just no 30 2 strokes about . I have been watching the ads for weeks . the nearest thing i could find was a 99 mariner 40 ex rnli for silly money from guess where . I think an extra few hundred for the new tohatsu over a 10 yr old motor is well spent .

I did think of waiting for the smaller etecs to arrive but they are heavier than the equivalent 4 strokes and well a grand more than the tohatsu . i also like the idea of a simple engine I have a chance of getting running again if it gets dunked or breaks down. I will also be able to service it myself .