650 pro tube RIBBED of!

DonPeterD · 05 August 2018, 22:02

Yes! Literally. In my SAR unit we run.. or ran, a zodiac 650 PRO 150 Suzuki boat from 2012.
We went out for training in rough water, 1-1,5m swells and 10-12m/s wind, so not seriously manly weather.
Hit a wake, throttled back, dived, throttled up to 10-13 kts hit a ok manly vertical 2m wave. And WAAAAM!!! the tube slammed 90 deg. up, off the hull, I just kissed it, and it went back down.
I thought we had hit a container floating in the water, and it had cracked the boat open. After 20 sec we were knee high in water and mayday was called.

Getting back in, boat on land we could now see the tube was ripped completely off the hull - ripped out of the guide rails. I have ALWAYS seen this design as a potential weak spot, compared to the glued on boats.

What are your thoughts and experiences on this matter?
And is there anything to do Zodiac Corp vice? If it can’t take a fairy wave like that, it’s freaking useless as a SAR boat if you ask me!

https://imgur.com/a/9OJvv2r

spartacus · 06 August 2018, 08:30

Wow, sounds a bit like running in a following sea and stuffing. Hope everyone was okay. How did the mayday get followed up?

On Zodiac Pros (leisure range) they use a channel or rail on the hull for the tube to slide along amd attach to. Normally there's two straps at the transom and a strap at the bow. Did that fail completely?

Definately worth following up with Zodiac for an explanation.

John Kennett · 06 August 2018, 09:25

It has happened plenty of times with glued on tubes too.

Stuffing the bow of a RIB hard into a wave puts enormous stresses on it. Most times you’ll get away with it, but sometimes it all goes wrong.

Zodiac have a pretty good reputation, and I’m not aware of this being a common problem on their boats. It’s possible that there may have been some pre-existing damage that created a weakness, and driving style may have contributed too.

DonPeterD · 06 August 2018, 10:32

I deliberately didn’t go into details about the extraction as my concern is about the RIB breaking apart - and how in the world this is even possible in a summer breeze.

Mayday first engaged at 1W output, useless new ICOM ic-m423g VHF starts up with that 1W setting, perhaps they have hired a Microsoft engineer. So... no response. As in no answer! Knee high in water and 5 NM at sea, this was getting interesting, fast.
I fiddled with the radio, that is a useless pale blue impossible to read display off a 1995 Nokia 3210. And two L/R buttons right next to the CH selector, that scrolles a menu on screen. Trying to hit one button at stress and in 1,5m waves, obviously hits the wrong one, changing the channel away from CH 16!
Found the H/L setting, 25W send another mayday out, and got a response, at extremely low volume, that was set to MAX...! The speaker output differed between the handset and the radio. Not really funny, when your life kinda depends on the stupid thing. The wave that hit us, obviously washed the boat, and decided to wash the radio too, so the speaker was "filled" with water (how ever that is possible, mounted in the console?) after some back and forth with Lyngby Radio, we tried the aqua quake function to clear the water from the speaker. Didn't help of cause, so we blew in it, like there was no tomorrow, and THEN we could hear the response. Seriously, what an engineering flaw!!! Why WHY isn't there a drain in the bottom of the speaker grill??

In the same time I was sweating with the radio, my colleague had cellphone coverage and had phoned Swedish SAR, that launched their 2x300 HP fast going tug boat. In a destress, seeing a ship heading towards you at 33KTS WOT to your rescue, is a sight for sore eyes I tell you! That black bow, chopping them waves in half, 20m off in each direction, is a sight I'll never forget!

They went from Sweden half way to Denmark, in about 10mins! We got the RIB on a long towline, and boarded their ship. Me soaked like a mouse, and them sitting there in a t-shirt with a big grin on their face. Understandable, Swedish SAR rescuing Danish SAR, isn't an everyday event, thank god!

A note to this when we got back at shore, I leaned that the wave had decided to lay down our VHF antenna. So if you ever get into some manly waters, and need assistance - remember to check if your antenna is straight up.

DonPeterD · 06 August 2018, 10:40

The bow skirt, that are bolted with 4 bolts, was torn off like a piece of paper.
The guiderails along the sides has ripped open the fiberglass, see pictures above.
The tube came out of the rails, all the way down to the center console. Well I kissed it, when it banged up and said hello.

A SAR boat obviously doesn't hold back for bad weather. And thankfully it has had a few poundings over it's 6 years lifespan. But seriously, hitting a swell at less then 15 KTS. Driving style was appropriate for the conditions. I don't get it, I really don't!

SixtyNorth · 06 August 2018, 11:05

Correct me if I am wrong, but, I have always thought the Zodiac Pro range to be leisure boats and the Milpro range to be their professional/ commercial boats. The two sections have now separated... a bit like your boat, although I suspect it was planned.

When purchased from Zodiac, were they informed that the boat was going to be for SAR use?

DonPeterD · 06 August 2018, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by SixtyNorth

Correct me if I am wrong, but, I have always thought the Zodiac Pro range to be leisure boats and the Milpro range to be their professional/ commercial boats. The two sections have now separated... a bit like your boat, although I suspect it was planned.

When purchased from Zodiac, were they informed that the boat was going to be for SAR use?

I too have a hard time understanding Zodiacs lineup. I have looked at the MilPro, and it has visually stronger transome, the tube doesn't seem to have any MAYOR advantages.
I wasn't in the unit at time of purchase. And purchase is done centrally. So I cannot answer your question, without guessing. What I can answer, is budgetvise this is a seriously bad setback, from what I've heard.

Xk59D · 06 August 2018, 12:05

That is a category C boat according to the tech specs on their website, surely not at all suitable for that type of work.

Glad everyone okay, all that matters.

willk · 06 August 2018, 12:06

Glad you all survived what sounds like a very unpleasant experience. You say in your OP that you hit a wake? Were you wake jumping? In any case, it sounds like a bad stuffing - did water knock the antenna down or could it have contacted the tubes when they folded? If it was water then it was a VERY bad stuffing. A stuffing of that magnitude places huge strain on the tubes and their fixings. From your photos it appears as though the fabric has ripped AND the rail failed. IMO, I would consider that vessel a leisure craft - not a bespoke SAR tool. Same with the VHF and possibly the antenna (can't see it). The bow is low in those boats and I always thought they ran a bit low in the water - not ideal in lumpy conditions.

If you have comms issues again in a crisis - DSC button first, talk later. Well done to the crewman with the (dry) mobile phone and hats off to the Swedes!

DonPeterD · 06 August 2018, 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

Glad you all survived what sounds like a very unpleasant experience. You say in your OP that you hit a wake? Were you wake jumping? In any case, it sounds like a bad stuffing - did water knock the antenna down or could it have contacted the tubes when they folded? If it was water then it was a VERY bad stuffing. A stuffing of that magnitude places huge strain on the tubes and their fixings. From your photos it appears as though the fabric has ripped AND the rail failed. IMO, I would consider that vessel a leisure craft - not a bespoke SAR tool. Same with the VHF and possibly the antenna (can't see it). The bow is low in those boats and I always thought they ran a bit low in the water - not ideal in lumpy conditions.

If you have comms issues again in a crisis - DSC button first, talk later. Well done to the crewman with the (dry) mobile phone and hats off to the Swedes!

It is NOT a SAR vessel. Clearly!
Denmark is on of the closest allied to the US, and one wonders why! We badly have a functional military, if the shit.. when the shit hits the fan, oh boy it's pants down! In Copenhagen port, there were no police patrolling up until last year. Two american students had to be killed by a immigrant on prison leave, he drove his jetski into them, and nearly beheaded one of them, killed two, injured 6 girls in a rental boat, out to celebrate a birthday.
THIS is what it took, two dead bodies, in order for the police to get their own patrol boat... A russian BRIG 7m'ish with a useless 130HP Yamaha - because hang on, someone in the government, believed that if it was fitted with a 250 HP it would, quote: "send a wrong signal"...
And where am I going with this?
I'll tell you! And you properly won't believe it - our OP is founded by PRIVATE investors, and donations, needless to say, we do NOT have the founding, for a real boat, by far!!
And yes, joint operations has the nerve to call us, to deploy in every situation, where a heli evac isn't needed.

Down to money my gentlemen, bodies has to be on the table, in order to get something done here around! Sadly.

Antenna is a Shakespeare 5400-XP Galaxy VHF Antenne 1,2m 3dB gain.

If ANY of you, know a way in for a sponsorship of a suitable platform, please let me be the first to know!

DonPeterD · 06 August 2018, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

Glad you all survived what sounds like a very unpleasant experience. You say in your OP that you hit a wake? Were you wake jumping? In any case, it sounds like a bad stuffing - did water knock the antenna down or could it have contacted the tubes when they folded? If it was water then it was a VERY bad stuffing. A stuffing of that magnitude places huge strain on the tubes and their fixings. From your photos it appears as though the fabric has ripped AND the rail failed. IMO, I would consider that vessel a leisure craft - not a bespoke SAR tool. Same with the VHF and possibly the antenna (can't see it). The bow is low in those boats and I always thought they ran a bit low in the water - not ideal in lumpy conditions.

If you have comms issues again in a crisis - DSC button first, talk later. Well done to the crewman with the (dry) mobile phone and hats off to the Swedes!

Yes! Both tube, skirt and rail is ripped apart - same goes for fiberglass guiderail, looks like it's pried open with a crowbar!

chris123 · 06 August 2018, 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonPeterD

It is NOT a SAR vessel. Clearly!
Denmark is on of the closest allied to the US, and one wonders why! We badly have a functional military, if the shit.. when the shit hits the fan, oh boy it's pants down! In Copenhagen port, there were no police patrolling up until last year. Two american students had to be killed by a immigrant on prison leave, he drove his jetski into them, and nearly beheaded one of them, killed two, injured 6 girls in a rental boat, out to celebrate a birthday.
THIS is what it took, two dead bodies, in order for the police to get their own patrol boat... A russian BRIG 7m'ish with a useless 130HP Yamaha - because hang on, someone in the government, believed that if it was fitted with a 250 HP it would, quote: "send a wrong signal"...
And where am I going with this?
I'll tell you! And you properly won't believe it - our OP is founded by PRIVATE investors, and donations, needless to say, we do NOT have the founding, for a real boat, by far!!
And yes, joint operations has the nerve to call us, to deploy in every situation, where a heli evac isn't needed.

Down to money my gentlemen, bodies has to be on the table, in order to get something done here around! Sadly.

Antenna is a Shakespeare 5400-XP Galaxy VHF Antenne 1,2m 3dB gain.

If ANY of you, know a way in for a sponsorship of a suitable platform, please let me be the first to know!

AFAIK Sweden, Germany, Netherlands, France and UK at least all have maritime SAR surface fleets successfully funded mostly or completely by donations, and crewed at least partially by volunteers.

In the UK at least the RNLI and Independent Lifeboats that operate in a number of locations would resist any suggestion of a move to government funding.

matt h · 06 August 2018, 16:01

Blimey, maybe take up cycling and you can vent your frustrations out on a fast moving truck!

gpsguru · 06 August 2018, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonPeterD

It is NOT a SAR vessel. Clearly!

An RNLI B Class lifeboat (8.5m RIB) has a price tag of about £220,000 .........

There is a whole load of reasons why they are expensive !!

gpsguru · 06 August 2018, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt h

Blimey, maybe take up cycling and you can vent your frustrations out on a fast moving truck!

cgoing · 06 August 2018, 19:34

Does not look like any adhesive or glass failure from your photos. Strictly torn material. and with it doubled over and glued and sewn in that area, That must have been some really really hard hit.

Over the years I've seen a few PVC boats pull the bolt rope from age and drying out of adhesive on old boats but never seen a Hypalon one tear like that.

Bigtalljv · 06 August 2018, 19:47

I’d be willing to guess this wasn’t the first time it’s been stuffed. Most things will break eventually when used hard repetitively. It is 6 years old so not like it was brand new. I don’t think you can blame that on a poor product. Yeah the wave might not have been huge but it probably hit it perfectly and with previous wear....pop!

DonPeterD · 06 August 2018, 20:48

There are glass failures along the guide rail! The tube is simply ripped out of the rail.
And yeah, it said bang alright! BUT if I had drove the thing 20 knots into that wave, I’m not too sure I would have been laying here on the couch looking this good. Just saying.
We have just received an offer of 10.000$ for a new tube plus glass work. If they go for it, I have lost faith in humanity!

office888 · 06 August 2018, 23:10

I don’t see any fiberglass damage.

Looks to me like you stuffed it hard and submarined the bow.

Orca 866 material, has about 500 DaN / 5cm tensile strength per TDS.

To rip like that, the dynamic stresses could have probably been measured in metric tones.

Drop testing a similar hull/tube design:
https://youtu.be/dCtYaduMW8A

Poly · 07 August 2018, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris123

AFAIK Sweden, Germany, Netherlands, France and UK at least all have maritime SAR surface fleets successfully funded mostly or completely by donations, and crewed at least partially by volunteers.

In the UK at least the RNLI and Independent Lifeboats that operate in a number of locations would resist any suggestion of a move to government funding.

I am quite sure the financial position of the RNLI is the envy of many UK charities never mind overseas ones. Comparing UK services and funding to Danish ones is perhaps misplaced - as taxation and culture of government involvement are totally different. That said, whoever is running a rescue boat needs to budget for fairly major damage that can and will happen to boats when they are placed in critical situations. If this is the first major expense after 6 yrs then they've probably done pretty well. Presumably a bigger issue is that the boat will now be "off service" and unlike the RNLI they may not have a fleet of relief boats.