A bit of advice please (in the event of disaster)

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Mollers

I think you're confusing a 4m rib with a 30,000 tonne freighter! You may also need to beware of boxes of bananas bobbing to the surface and smacking you in the nuts!!

I think he must have watched Titanic once too often!!!

[codprawn]

Anyone spotted any icebergs lately???

[Pablo]

A friend of mine saw his rib (Zodiac Cherokee) flip whilst spearfishing on his own about 10 nautical miles out in rather rough conditions. He managed to right it him self, start the engine and get back to port safely. He was of course properly equiped to stay in the water warmly which must certainly help alot. Everything in the boat was obviously lost except the fuel tank (which floats and remained attached). It goes without saying that he had the freight of his life ! He was very lucky that his engine started.

[Nos4r2]

I'll start by saying I've never been in the situation (fingers crossed) but this is what I'd try to do having thought about it,learned a lot from here, recovering a couple of very wet engines and assuming it was viable in the weather conditions and proximity to shore/danger.

Inflate my lifejacket if it hasn't gone off.
Call mayday with the handheld VHF attached to my lifejacket.Do a headcount,make sure all lifejackets are inflated and get the crew to hang on to each other (and the boat if safe to do so)til I need them.Make sure they aren't going to try and help of their own accord without being asked to-it can be as much of a hindrance as a help.Get them to keep checking each other. They will be scared shiftless and disorientated so I'd get them onto the upturned hull. I'd try to remember to keep them informed and properly instructed. As the skipper they are my responsibility and an important tool to aid in their own and the boats recovery.If no answer, keep calling Mayday or delegate crew to do so if it's safe to transfer the VHF to them.Delegate a lookout.


Attempt to recover flare box from the bow locker.Try to attach the flare container to something/someone easily accessable. If no answer to VHF,send up a red parachute flare.Keep calling mayday.Send up another red parachute flare when the first lands.

Conditions permitting,I'd then
Pass the painter through a safety line on the seaward side as far astern as possible and climb (along with crew) onto the leeward side. Try and right the boat using the waves and crew to help it over.If it won't right and it's safe and viable, I'd attempt to partially deflate the lee tube to help it.Make sure the crew are aware of the danger the skeg will cause as the boat rights and try and keep them away from it.

Assuming the boat comes upright, get everyone aboard.Try and recover the fuel tank(s) if they've come unstrapped.Try calling mayday via the fixed VHF if it's still working. If I still had an anchor and it's viable,I'd drop anchor or attempt to jury rig a sea anchor.

If possible,I'd delegate someone to pump the tubes up again or do it myself.Get the bilge pump running or someone bailing and the trunks down.

Again, conditions permitting and no response to mayday then I'd try and restart the engine.Assuming a carbed 2-stroke I'd do the following.

It's highly unlikely it's going to start straight away-it's probably full of water so I wouldn't even try to turn it over yet. Hopefully there's still some tools aboard and a can of WD40 or similar (mine are in a food container with a clip down O-ring sealed lid from Tesco-cheap and a good way to keep things dry-in a locker and it floats with them in it. )

You don't need much do do the following-enough to get the airbox off, plugs out and drain screws from the carbs.I carry all the tools needed for the procedure below(surprisingly little)and a lanyard to attach the tool I'm using to my wrist along with other odds and sods, a can of WD40 and having thought about this, I'll be adding a bottle of Wynns Dryfuel with a squirty top from a redex bottle taped to it.In my opinion it's quite important to make absolutely sure the tube on the can of WD40 doesn't get lost either so it's worth taping it on.

Tilt the engine all the way down.Get the hood off and the plugs out to drain water out(most plugs will come out with an adjustable spanner).Assuming it's carbed,remove the airbox if you have one and drain the carbs of fuel. While the drain plugs are out, try and blast a little Dryfuel into the float bowls-it'll clear water from the jets.Replace drain plugs. Turn the engine over on the key with the spark plugs out AND THE KILLCORD OFF for 10 seconds to expel as much water as possible. Get some Dryfuel into the plugholes if possible after this (squirty top helps here-if you don't have one don't try it.)

Pour a load of Dryfuel into the inlet tracts-it'll absorb the water left inside the engine-and turn the engine over again for a few seconds.

Put the top one back in.Spray the plugs with Dryfuel THEN wd40. Bingo-dry plugs. Put the top one back in.

Try to start the engine,cranking the fast idle lever from closed to full. If it fires put the next plug back in. Hopefully it'll start on 2 cylinders. Keep it running on 2 to warm it up and dry it out. Stop the engine, put the last/next plug back in. When it's running on all cylinders,check the prop is free of lines and hopefully you're running and out of the smelly stuff. I'm not trying to be nice to the engine here so if it won't run on all cylinders but will still make headway get moving towards the nearest safe place.

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Inflate my lifejacket if it hasn't gone off.

Attempt to recover flare box from the bow locker.

This order of things wouldn't be possible.

I wouldn't be confident about the rest in anything else but calm conditions. Would an engine fill up with water that quickly ? Is nothing water tight ?

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Pablo

This order of things wouldn't be possible.

I could on mine-the bow locker is right in the bow and I can reach it from in the water.The weight of the engine should make the bow float higher.

Originally Posted by Pablo

I wouldn't be confident about the rest in anything else but calm conditions.

Nor would I-but I reckon it's worth a try. You'll survive a lot longer out of the water.

Originally Posted by Pablo

Would an engine fill up with water that quickly ? Is nothing water tight ?

Realistically, nothing much is watertight on an engine when inverted for any length of time. Any water in the exhaust will run straight back into the cylinders and the cowl will let in water via the air intake if the other seals aren't perfectly airtight. If a 2 stroke piston is on the intake/exhaust stroke then air will be able to escape that way too albeit slowly. If you're lucky and the airbox inlets don't submerge you might get away with it but I'd still pull the plugs first-if water has got in you'll hydraulic lock the engine.

Might be worth trying to turn the engine slowly via the flywheel by hand with it tilted to let water run out of the cabs and airbox though.

BTW, it's highly unlikely Jon H's motor still has the inversion restart kit on it still.

[9D280]

What Nos describes is essentially what the RNLI "wet start" kit does without the aid of tools. I was at a lecture given by an RNLI bloke years ago who described it. Basically a "dump valve" on the bottom of each cylinder coupled together and also acting with carb drain / flush valves (basically poured fuel through the carbs). Idea is you pull the lever and crank for 10(?) seconds. In one fell swoop it pumps the cyls dry and flushes the carb bowls expelling all the water. I can't remember if you then half closed the valves to warm things up with a bit of compression or not, but then you just replace the lever, and treat as a cold start. They reckoned 45 seconds from climbing back in to driving off! And no, it's highly unlikely it'll still be fitted!


As for righting it, I'd second the tube deflation. Remember even a small rib will probably weigh around the half ton mark, when it's upside down you will be essentially lifiting most of that weight as it will float on the toobs....and there's no centreboards to climb up on to give more leverage. Also when it passes "TDC" you don't have a lot of time to get out it's way! If it's got one toob slightly deflated, that side will tend to sink, making the whole operation a little easier and reducing the chance of you nutting yourself as it lands on top of you. Also by deflating one side it makes it easier to get back in. I'd leave a bit of air in the aft section tho' to counter the weight of the engine and helpto keep it vaguely level when it's the right way up.

.....and hopefully I'll never need to try.

[MIRO Stewart]

Originally Posted by timw

NO!!!

Swim as far away from the vessel as you can, because if she goes down, you could well be sucked down with her.

You also need to try and avoid swallowing any oil that is likely to have leaked and will be floating on the surface.

Make sure you have your lifejacket on and that it's inflated.

Well thats bloody scar! Get yourself a PB2 course matey!

As stated before, in the event of an emergency allways stay with the boat unless its dangerous to do so (ie it on fire) it gives you something to hangonto and keep you afloat and is a damn siht easier for rescuers to find than just a head bobbing in what is likly fairly rough water!

What Nos4r2 says about headcounts etc is spot on! I allways have my handheld clipped to my lifejacket! Whilst doing these things, the most important thing for the helm of an upturned boat to do is to remain calm! It seems simple enough but if you stay calm so will your crew. Its also important totry to keep their spirits up.

I may be possible to get back under the boat with an inflated lifejacket (depending on your size and your jackets bouyancy) however I cant say I would recomend it as potentially you could become stuck under there!

As stated before, your fuel tanks would float although if upsidedown they may also leak through the vent. If you did try to upright the boat then the way to do it would be to partially deflate one side although this is outside the PB2 syllabus.

A grab bag or box with emergency gear is a good idea but it is unlikely that you will plan to turn you rib over and so will probably not have time to grab anything as the boat goes over. It may be worth having you grab bage carrabina clipped onto your safety lines or a cleat or even you stern D-ring so as you can get it without having to go under the boat



Have a read of this maib report on an
Upturned Rigid raider
I know its not a rib but it highlights some of the issues. And give you a few things to think about

As stated earlier the RNLI sea safety guide is very good. Try and get yourself a copy (i think they hand them out at ALB stations) or have a look at it online

[codprawn]

As RIBs are pretty much unsinkable the most likely disaster is a capsize.

It's all very well having a grab bag but how do you get at it when the boat is upside down?

How about fixing a polybottle or similar to the transom filled with all your safety gear. Then if the boat flips you don't have to try diving underneath - it will all be instantly accessible.

Some sort of cage device with the container mounted upside down should do the trick.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by codprawn

As RIBs are pretty much unsinkable the most likely disaster is a capsize.

or high speed grounding/collision throwing you out, man overboard (or console over board - based on recent stories), or fire!

How about fixing a polybottle ... Some sort of cage device with the container mounted upside down should do the trick.

...or perhaps a bottle mounted on the a-frame... oh wait a minute thats not a new idea.

[SDGANDER]

You need to sort the serious from crap replies here...

I think that the RNLI remove the inversion kit from the outboards before they are sold.

It is perfectly possible to get under an inverted RIB safely - ask any ILB crew. Likewise with a correctly rigged painter you ll probably be able to right it - especially if there is two of you.

SDG.

[Downhilldai]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Some sort of cage device with the container mounted upside down should do the trick.

If you mount it the right way up, at least then it would only be upside down for that short time between capsize and you accessing it.

Originally Posted by Polwart

.....or perhaps a bottle mounted on the a-frame... oh wait a minute thats not a new idea.

But it would be underneath the boat and difficult to access after a capsize - Codprawn is thinking of something easily accesible in such a situation.

[Nos4r2]

Not sure I'd really want to get underneath near the transom while the boat is inverted though unless it was unavoidable. More protrusions to get caught up in (steering, fuel lines,cables etc on a small boat) and it'd be further down than the rest of the boat. What do you think?

[MIRO Stewart]

Originally Posted by SDGANDER

It is perfectly possible to get under an inverted RIB safely - ask any ILB crew.

Tis very true but as a few folk have said, it is outwith PB2 sylabus

[spartacus]

Have a read of this maib report on an Upturned Rigid raider. I know its not a rib but it highlights some of the issues. And give you a few things to think about.

This makes rather sad reading. The whole operation was an unmitigated diaster from start to finish.

[MIRO Stewart]

Originally Posted by spartacus

This makes rather sad reading. The whole operation was an unmitigated diaster from start to finish.

Yeah, it is rather grim reading! That being said, it appears to have come down to lack of planning and preperation. I think we could all take some lessons from this tragedy. I know it certainly made me think about a few aspects of safety and equipment on my own boat!

A little bit of planning could have gone some way to averting this incident. Which is why it is important that people sit down beforehand (as Jon H has done) and say well what the hell do we do if the boat turns turtle! Or we do have a real MOB. Aswell as this it highlights the importance of keeping calm, there is no use in panicing!

Anyway, safe boating everyone

[prairie tuber]

Originally Posted by timw

NO!!!

Swim as far away from the vessel as you can, because if she goes down, you could well be sucked down with her.

You also need to try and avoid swallowing any oil that is likely to have leaked and will be floating on the surface.

Make sure you have your lifejacket on and that it's inflated.

Garbage advice like this should be yanked from the thread. I'm not sure if he was trying to be funny or not, but it has no place here.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

Garbage advice like this should be yanked from the thread. I'm not sure if he was trying to be funny or not, but it has no place here.

I am sure it was a joke - if it wasn't and anyone believed it they would soon be up for a Darwin award anyway!!!

[timw]

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

Garbage advice like this should be yanked from the thread. I'm not sure if he was trying to be funny or not, but it has no place here.

Indeed...safety is no joking matter

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by SDGANDER

You need to sort the serious from crap replies here...

I agree.. there are mixed messages going on here which is diluting some good advice.. and some serious questions