A little dissappointed with avon

[ollyit]

Sent an email below to avon,(well zodiac now) was asking for some guidance on spec of marine ply on my searider refurb (4metre one)

I guess there just covering themselves but still a bit annoying after asking on 8th feb!

Are they trying to suggest the boats had it? as I certainly dont think that! just trying to do a decent job


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From: steve.lang@zmp-zodiac.com [mailto:steve.lang@zmp-zodiac.com]
Sent: 22 February 2011 10:36
To: Poole, Olly
Subject: Re: FW: Question if I may regarding searider 4metre


Thanks for yr email

In view of the fact that both the deck & transom have "rotted" and in view of the age of the craft we would not recommend this work be carried out.In light of this we cannot provide any form of assistance I'm afraid

Best Regards
Steve LANG
UK Military & Professional Sales Manager
Avon Inflatables Ltd/ Zodiac MILPRO
Dafen,Llanelli, Carmarthenshire, SA14 8NA
UK

Tel +44(0)1554 882000
Fax +44 (0)1554 882019
Mobile +44(0) 7710 352 952
See our website: www.zodiacmilpro.com


From: "Poole, Olly"
To: "'Steve.Lang@zmp-zodiac.com'" <Steve.Lang@zmp-zodiac.com>
Date: 21/02/2011 16:08
Subject: FW: Question if I may regarding searider 4metre





Many thanks in advance.
*
*
From: Poole, Olly
Sent: 21 February 2011 16:02
To: 'workboat@zmp-zodiac.com'
Subject: FW: Question if I may regarding searider 4metre
*
*
*
From: Poole, Olly
Sent: 21 February 2011 15:57
To: 'workboat@zmp-zodiac.com'
Subject: RE: Question if I may regarding searider 4metre
*
Can anybody advise please?
*
From: Poole, Olly
Sent: 08 February 2011 16:34
To: 'workboat@zmp-zodiac.com'
Subject: Question if I may regarding searider 4metre
*
Afternoon,
*
I’m renovating on old 1980’ s sea rider as the transom and deck is rotten,I’m going to replace the deck with 6mm marine ply,
*
What thickness would you recommend please for the transom?
*
Many thanks in advance,
*
Regards –
*

*

[Ian M]

Smells of large company arse protecting to me

[willk]

Unhelpful and delayed, but understandable. However, I think they should state their policy clearly on their website and reference that (promptly and politely) when replying to "refurb" queries. I suspect that they get a great many questions about their older products and this one asks for a technical spec for major surgery - no company is going to embrangle itself in a rebuild in light of the potential legal troubles if the arse drops out of the RIB later.

[9D280]

Yep, Agreed.

It's a bit like asking a car maker for the software code for your ABS so you can improve it. They won't give it to you, as you could end up with them in court for allowing you to screw up & kill someone else.

Not that I'm implying you can't build boats, but Avon can't guarantee nor are covered for mistakes as a result of that.

[Poly]

Reading between the lines I think what he is saying is:

"Any fault on a Searider which can't be fixed with Ducktape is considered too serious to repair. We would however be delighted to offer you a great discount on a brand new Searider if you wish to contact our sales team!"

[achille2124]

Originally Posted by 9D280

Yep, Agreed.

It's a bit like asking a car maker for the software code for your ABS so you can improve it. They won't give it to you, as you could end up with them in court for allowing you to screw up & kill someone else.

Not that I'm implying you can't build boats, but Avon can't guarantee nor are covered for mistakes as a result of that.

Exactly. I am sure that gal would love to help you but he just can't.

I think that posting full name and full email adress is a bit uncalled for.

[martini]

Originally Posted by achille2124

I think that posting full name and full email adress is a bit uncalled for.

It's cool, it's already out there:
http://www.zodiacmilpro.com/contact.php

[ianhappy]

Might it be possible to re-phrase the question so that Avon aren't seen to be making recommendations, but rather providing original dimensions?

Eg. "could you tell me what thickness transom a 1980's SR would have had?". That way they are just giving you the original specs and it's up to you what you do with that information.

Perhaps I'm being too naive (not uncommon for me ).

Ian

[Ian M]

I find myself saddened by some of the replies here. We are supposed to be one of the more adventurous elements of society, yet here we are, if not condoning, at least accepting the arse covering antics of a large organisation One of the less healthy aspects of our society, imho.
I understand the legal implications that might apply, but a simple disclaimer provided with the info would surely serve.
After all, Olly is trying to renovate one of their products - no there is no financial gain in it for them, but surely there is potential for positive exposure. Go on Zodiac, I dare you.......

[Rogue Wave]

Avon are infamous for crap customer service, they even difficult to get a price out of for a new Milpro if they think your'e a non commercial punter. They make seariders though so they are forgiven for everything in my book!

Easy way out buddy take a one inch Holesaw and put it through the deck and transom Obviously on a solid bit and look at your core sample. It's going to tell you the width and how thick the GRP is. I would have imagined after this time you've probably worked out what you need!

God luck with this project however cos looking at your other work it's going to be done proper and come out of the other end a cracking Searider

[ollyit]

Originally Posted by ianhappy

Might it be possible to re-phrase the question so that Avon aren't seen to be making recommendations, but rather providing original dimensions?

Eg. "could you tell me what thickness transom a 1980's SR would have had?". That way they are just giving you the original specs and it's up to you what you do with that information.

Perhaps I'm being too naive (not uncommon for me ).

Ian

thanks ian, yes totally worth a shot, I just want facts, I not a blame culture person like so many in this country, what I do Im responsible for

[ollyit]

thanks guys really nice comments there - Im not a troublemaker , just trying to do a quality job and make it safe to original spec, should I move the boat on, its not (in my book) in the spirit of boating to do something unsafe, just wanted some guidance, peoples lives may depend on it being a proper job, I also take great pride in things I do and wheres the seas concerned nothing gets done by half,
a few years back I called avon spoke to chap when it was avon and spoke to a really helpfull who was clearly involved in the production of SRs and a fountain of knowledge even down the classic "searider" ORANGE confusion, ral2004 bs592 etc (inprinted in my brain!)

[willk]

Originally Posted by Ian M

I find myself saddened by some of the replies here. We are supposed to be one of the more adventurous elements of society, yet here we are, if not condoning, at least accepting the arse covering antics of a large organisation

Cheer up, don't be sad. Why don't you have an adventure and lobby Avon/Zodiac for a Public Service Department? They're a big company and it's time they "gave something back". They'd only need a couple of dedicated staff to run it. You know the sort of stuff - colours for each year, tube sizes, tube and hull fittings, flooding hull mods, deck and transom rebuilds, console dimensions, engine heights, etc., etc., etc.
BTW, I don't condon Avon/Zodiac's "policy", if that's what it is - I agree with it.

Originally Posted by ollyit

thanks guys really nice comments there - Im not a troublemaker , just trying to do a quality job and make it safe to original spec, should I move the boat on, its not (in my book) in the spirit of boating to do something unsafe, just wanted some guidance, peoples lives may depend on it being a proper job, I also take great pride in things I do and wheres the seas concerned nothing gets done by half,

Was that sarcasm? You posted "private" Avon/Zodiac correspondence on the web for comment and you got it. My reply may not have supported your position but it was measured and probably accurate - I know you will do a superb job on the RIB, your other work is legendary on here, but Avon/Zodiac don't know that. To them you're just one of the hordes of Garageista timewasters looking for cheap Avons - not their problem.

[Mollers]

Much as it bothers me, I kinda agree with Willk. Avon are not gonna dedicate a great deal of resource to rebuilding old shaggers.

I'd have thought, if you spec decent marine ply to the correct dimensions, you'll be as good, or poss better than the original.

[ollyit]

Originally Posted by willk

Cheer up, don't be sad. Why don't you have an adventure and lobby Avon/Zodiac for a Public Service Department? They're a big company and it's time they "gave something back". They'd only need a couple of dedicated staff to run it. You know the sort of stuff - colours for each year, tube sizes, tube and hull fittings, flooding hull mods, deck and transom rebuilds, console dimensions, engine heights, etc., etc., etc.
BTW, I don't condon Avon/Zodiac's "policy", if that's what it is - I agree with it.


Was that sarcasm? You posted "private" Avon/Zodiac correspondence on the web for comment and you got it. My reply may not have supported your position but it was measured and probably accurate - I know you will do a superb job on the RIB, your other work is legendary on here, but Avon/Zodiac don't know that. To them you're just one of the hordes of Garageista timewasters looking for cheap Avons - not their problem.

fair point willk, noted

[9D280]

Originally Posted by ollyit

I just want facts, I not a blame culture person like so many in this country, what I do Im responsible for

I think you hit the nail on the head there.

The big problem is that it's part of the culture these days.

[diverbert]

Have a look on http://www.avonsearider.nl/index.php...=243&Itemid=29
a friend of mine has replaced his deck.

maybe usefull.

grtz
bert

[ollyit]

thanks bert, great site!!!! great build pics, I need to learn more of your language to navigate the site better - lots of cool content, thanks

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by diverbert

Have a look on http://www.avonsearider.nl/index.php...=243&Itemid=29
a friend of mine has replaced his deck.

maybe usefull.

grtz
bert

Wow .. thats inspiration for anyone that .. a lot of work

[gingerdad]

Originally Posted by willk

Cheer up, don't be sad. Why don't you have an adventure and lobby Avon/Zodiac for a Public Service Department? They're a big company and it's time they "gave something back". They'd only need a couple of dedicated staff to run it. You know the sort of stuff - colours for each year, tube sizes, tube and hull fittings, flooding hull mods, deck and transom rebuilds, console dimensions, engine heights, etc., etc., etc.
BTW, I don't condon Avon/Zodiac's "policy", if that's what it is - I agree with it.


Was that sarcasm? You posted "private" Avon/Zodiac correspondence on the web for comment and you got it. My reply may not have supported your position but it was measured and probably accurate - I know you will do a superb job on the RIB, your other work is legendary on here, but Avon/Zodiac don't know that. To them you're just one of the hordes of Garageista timewasters looking for cheap Avons - not their problem.

Just to add my 2p's worthi, i'm trying to buy a new inflatable from Avon and it's like getting blood from a stone, anyone would think they don't like selling new boats