Advice for a potential rib upgrade (Solent use)

[wookie 1]

Good afternoon,

Just over a year ago, I bought a 2008 Avon 560 rib with a Yamaha 115 4 stroke of the same age, as my first rib.

We do a lot of sailing out of Hamble and the rib was bought largely for fun - wakeboarding with friends, popping over/up the river for dinner, the odd trip over to Cowes/Prior Bay etc or a bit of sea swimming out of Osborne Bay. It's been great so far and I have upgraded it substantially in terms of electronics/nav kit/stereo/proper custom stainless A frame with tow point etc.

On a fair weather day it is a quick, very economical rib, that can comfortably plane with 8/9 people at c28 knots and is great for wakeboarding (after I reduced the prop pitch from 21-19).

Most of the time that we use it is nice weather, but we do find ourselves on occasion out in less nice weather - ie this Cowes Week we had a prizegiving to go over for and we also had day when we needed to drop some sails to Cowes for a repair in 25 knots of breeze. It's a pretty average rib in those conditions. I also found myself in Priory Bay in early July needing to head back in wind over tide and high teens wind, it was a reasonably tough trip to Hamble.

I'm not sure whether to keep the rib and enjoy it for what it's good for, accepting that occasionally it will be a bit of a tough ride (albeit capable of getting through with a fair bit of slamming/spray) or whether to go for something a bit more capable in the heavy weather.

I am open to ideas, would something of similar length, say a smidge longer at c6m Ribeye but with a deeper v be substantially better, or would I need a longer, say 7m+ rib to make the upgrade worthwhile? I don't want to make the change for the sake of making the change and end up with something only a little better, given we have customised the rib to exactly what we want in terms of electronics, a frame etc, but if I can substantially improve the bad weather handling, it would be good.

I also don't want to get into the arms race of much longer, much heavier, much bigger engine, where I am less tempted to go for a spin because I know its going to use a considerable amount of fuel. At the moment I can do Hamble to Cowes and back, or a wakeboarding session on 20ltrs, which is very acceptable and means the rib gets a lot of use.

Really appreciate thoughts and suggestions.

Thank you in advance.

[Maximus]

Ribcraft 585 (often coupled with a 140) would do a decent job....and definatly have more capability when/if you did need it for any reason
All those Bods on Board is asking for/courting trouble though IMO.

[wookie 1]

Thanks Maximus.

What should you pay for one of those? Have there been any design changes over the years?

We very very rarely travel with that many, like twice in owning, usually 2-5 people.

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by wookie 1

Thanks Maximus.

What should you pay for one of those? Have there been any design changes over the years?

We very very rarely travel with that many, like twice in owning, usually 2-5 people.

Just Google em....and put a search on here...and ask for testimonials ...You tube ect and you'll get all the info you'll need...

[GuyC]

The Solent chop particularly when it is wind against tide is pretty unpleasant in any smallish boat as the seas are so steep.

More deadrise will help along with size but then there is a power / speed penalty for doing this. A deeper forefoot will help to part the waves but at the expense of a bit of bow steer when you are going down waves.

The other route to better seakeeping and this is said with all due respect is how the boat is driven in poor conditions. You might find investing a few hundred quid on a course turns out to be a worthwhile investment as you can deal with the conditions in your current boat. Just to re-iterate, this isn't meant as any criticism.

The Powerboat Training Website

[charlie turner]

Scorpion ribs 7.5m -8.5m are great in the solent chop and look the part as well ,just try finding one now as they are hard to find due to being popular.

[Dan Gurney]

Do you/Would you trailer it or keep it afloat? If trailering then how far? IMHO once you get north of 7m or so trailering any sort of distance is going to be a pain in the hoop. Fine for special occasions, but it's going to cause you to think twice about 'throwing it in for a quick blast.' (Cue lots of folk with 8m Scorpions saying it's fine)

[willk]

Originally Posted by Dan Gurney

Do you/Would you trailer it or keep it afloat? If trailering then how far? IMHO once you get north of 7m or so trailering any sort of distance is going to be a pain in the hoop. Fine for special occasions, but it's going to cause you to think twice about 'throwing it in for a quick blast.' (Cue lots of folk with 8m Scorpions saying it's fine)

Dan Gurney has the right boat/engine for the OP, IMO!

Absolutely legend combo. Maybe even better with a Merc 150

[paulbrown22]

Originally Posted by Dan Gurney

Do you/Would you trailer it or keep it afloat? If trailering then how far? IMHO once you get north of 7m or so trailering any sort of distance is going to be a pain in the hoop. Fine for special occasions, but it's going to cause you to think twice about 'throwing it in for a quick blast.' (Cue lots of folk with 8m Scorpions saying it's fine)

I find with my 9m rig (not Scorpion!) that trailing distances are absolutely fine - it's long but very steady, and tows like a dream for hour on end. But absolutely agreed on short distances - it's a right pain and faff to get it all ready and rigged to tow just to do the 500m to the yacht club to drop it in the water for a quick spin! And then to have to recover it at the end again…

In a few weeks mine will be going to live, on it's trailer, at the yacht club, when then just dropping it in the water should be much more pleasant (I hope).

[Dan Gurney]

Also: you say you also sail... Does that mean this is not your primary money pit? Given that you've got this Avon just how you like it (And you aren't going to get that time/money back) is it really worth sinking a load of extra into another second hand boat?

To answer your original question though... we went from a 1993 Humber Attaque 5.3 to a Redbay 6.1. The difference in heavy weather is night and day. The Humber was a great wee boat and felt very safe, but you have to slow down much earlier than in the Redbay. We can easily maintain 20knots in force 5 - 6 for as long as our backs can take it. In fact the only time we can keep up with the big lads is when it's lumpy![emoji6]

[Dan Gurney]

Originally Posted by paulbrown22

I find with my 9m rig (not Scorpion!) that trailing distances are absolutely fine - it's long but very steady, and tows like a dream for hour on end. But absolutely agreed on short distances - it's a right pain and faff to get it all ready and rigged to tow just to do the 500m to the yacht club to drop it in the water for a quick spin! And then to have to recover it at the end again…

In a few weeks mine will be going to live, on it's trailer, at the yacht club, when then just dropping it in the water should be much more pleasant (I hope).

That's kinda what I was getting at. But maybe that's true for all ribs and there's no more faff with a 9 than a 6? (If you have the right to vehicle).

Best thing is to have it on the trailer right by the water. If the OP sails then they may be able to keep it at their club by the water. In which case it's just a case of money. Yes it will be better in the chop, yes it will be quicker, so if you've got the brass, fill yet boots!

[Dan Gurney]

Originally Posted by willk

Dan Gurney has the right boat/engine for the OP, IMO!

Absolutely legend combo. Maybe even better with a Merc 150

I don't think a Merc was on the menu when we ordered. I'm sure if I'd stamped my feet they'd have got me one.

I often wonder if I should have got the Suzi 150, but it was a LOT more brass and I'd prolly have gone all the way to 175 if I was going for the bigger block.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Dan Gurney

I don't think a Merc was on the menu when we ordered. I'm sure if I'd stamped my feet they'd have got me one.

I often wonder if I should have got the Suzi 150, but it was a LOT more brass and I'd prolly have gone all the way to 175 if I was going for the bigger block.

No, you made the right pick at the time

[Dan Gurney]

Originally Posted by willk

No, you made the right pick at the time

There's always something better just round the corner though.... [emoji57]

[paulbrown22]

Originally Posted by Dan Gurney

That's kinda what I was getting at. But maybe that's true for all ribs and there's no more faff with a 9 than a 6? (If you have the right to vehicle).

Best thing is to have it on the trailer right by the water. If the OP sails then they may be able to keep it at their club by the water. In which case it's just a case of money. Yes it will be better in the chop, yes it will be quicker, so if you've got the brass, fill yet boots!

Yes, agreed - I think 4-5m is much easier to tow, manoeuvre around and just drop in the water, but clearly smaller than the OP is looking at.

Going 6m+ and it becomes a bit more hassle to move. With my 9m, I need such a turning circle to get it off the driveway, I sometimes have to ask a neighbour to move a car, I hook up the light board, straps and everything as I am on a public road, even only for <500m, etc.

Sounds like he's best suited with similar length, but deeper V hull.

I must admit, we had an Avon Adventure 620 as our first larger RIB, and had great fun with it in all weathers, all year round between Poole and the Solent. I never felt uncomfortable in it at the time, but the rough weather handling definitely doesn't compare to my Ribtec, or other Ribcraft, etc., that I've driven. If happy with the current length, don't necessarily be persuaded to go too much bigger (as that comes with extra fuel costs, maintenance costs, berthing costs, and/or towing hassles), but perhaps try to test a few boats with some deeper V hulls and see how they compare. At the end of the day, we only sold our 620 because we bought a sailing yacht - otherwise, we probably would have kept it for the sort of things we were doing at the time.

[wookie 1]

Thanks for your input guys, all very useful - great forum.

Indeed I do sail but I am fortunate that I don't foot too much of the bill for that. I rarely trailer it (we did take it down to Devon last summer for a week, and took it for engine service then home at end of year). It's kept in dry stack at marina, which I love and means we get more use out of it due to ease, but clearly comes at a price.

No offence taken re the training, I've been driving ribs for a lot longer than I've owned this one, but have also invested in some more advanced training since buying. Plenty more to learn though and as you say, that's much cheaper than a new boat.

It's interesting the comment re being happy with the 620 - I knew that the 560 wasn't ideal in rougher weather (well anything other than flat water really), but it was only when I've recently driven some larger boats that I realised quite how much of a difference it was (coastline 7m and redbay c8.8m).

Hence I'm just wondering if there is a sensible middle ground that wouldn't be a compromise and would be a marked improvement to justify the double or potentially triple monetary cost.

[Xk59D]

I had a 5.6 Avon adventure and I loved it, used within its means it was great.

I now have a ribcraft 6.8 and there is a massive difference. I'm sure any deep hull though would give you a big difference compared to the 5.6.

Maybe best to get a few sea trials in with some boats, especially if you are buying new?

Fwiw I would get the 150 Merc on something of suitable size over anything else engine wise at that size. When I asked redbay for a quote on a stormforce they refused to allow any engine except a Suzuki due to type approval they have, worth clarifying if that is still the case as it limits your choice. The irony is I ended up with a Suzuki anyway!

Regarding fuel consumption, I think my 6.8 burns about 30% more than my adventure with 100hp 4 stroke as a guide.

[paulbrown22]

Originally Posted by wookie 1

Thanks for your input guys, all very useful - great forum.

Hence I'm just wondering if there is a sensible middle ground that wouldn't be a compromise and would be a marked improvement to justify the double or potentially triple monetary cost.

You could absolutely get a ~6m RIB of a different design that would handle tougher conditions much better than an Adventure of a similar length, and indeed one that would take on most conditions if driven correctly. Many people on here have and will recommend various brands of 5.8-6.3m RIB's in that sort of category, if you don't want to increase length overly.

I guess the key thing is working out how much you need more of the "all weather" ability, and how much you'd be willing to spend to get it! If you're aware of the limitations of the Adventure, and it's more of a fun boat alongside your sailing activities as well, maybe it's not worth spending loads of money on changing it, if you plan on doing much the same things with a new RIB. If you're thinking of upgrading RIB, using it more, doing more longer passages in rough weather, etc., then worth considering some of the common recommendations from here.

I know many people on here bash the Adventures, but we had ours for 3-4 years and absolutely loved it for what we were using it for, whilst it did need more careful driving in harsher conditions. At the time, there wasn't really any need to invest more to change it. When I came back to Ribbing a few years ago, my requirements had changed somewhat, and I wanted the ability to do longer passages in rougher weather, larger fuel tank, more storage, a bit more wind/spray protection, so I bought a different boat.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

When I asked redbay for a quote on a stormforce they refused to allow any engine except a Suzuki due to type approval they have, worth clarifying if that is still the case as it limits your choice.

Hmmm. They fit Verados and Yamahas as well as Suzukis. I've never heard of "type approval". I think something got lost in translation. Did you tell them to sharpen their pencil? That could cause a "misunderstanding"...

[Xk59D]

They flat out refused to sell me anything without a Suzuki on it. Even without an engine wasn't an option due to type approval, their words verbatim to me.

I didn't peruse it no as I'd already taken redbay off the potential list for other reasons.