Advice On Choice Of Ribs

Aegean Lady · 12 August 2006, 15:39

Hi

I am a total newcomer to all this RIB business - my time on the water has all been done in boats with big white flappy things.

We run an RYA recognised sail cruising centre in Greece and plan to become recognised for powerboat courses as well, hopefully by the end of this year.

Our intention is to buy about three ribs and, in addition to courses, to run 2-3 day rib-treks to some of our neighbouring islands.

Our Principal is a PB Instructor with lots of experience and he will make the final decision on what we buy. However I am also a Director of the company and want to be able to discuss the choice of boats intelligently.

So please can I have your comments on what we should be looking for in a) training boats b) boats to go off for a few days.

Please assume I know nothing as that is the case.

I know there are some Greek members so I'd be especially interested in their comments on suitable makes, and reliable dealers/agents in the Athens/Piraeus area.

Many thanks.

codprawn · 12 August 2006, 18:11

For good cruising boats you should look at the Picton Cobra range. They have sold quite a few to Greece and they are good value.

http://www.pictonboats.com/Nautique.htm

If you want more of a performance boat look at Revenger

http://www.revenger.co.uk/

For teaching purposes you would be better with smaller boats - prob in the 6m range - I am sure many people on here will give loads of advice.

havener · 12 August 2006, 18:44

Being my usual biased self, talk to Delta (www.deltapower.co.uk) for a number of reasons -

The build quality is superb, you won't get inexperienced students knocking bits off,

They'll listen carefully to what you want to use it for and make helpful suggestions accordingly,

After sales support is second to none, although not sure if they have a Greek distributor.

Certainly not the cheapest around, and the only other drawback I can think of is the high bow may be offputting to newcomers.

Otherwise, Humber (Quinquari) or RedBay are well worth looking at.

One last suggestion, go for a central helm position - makes changing student drivers around much easier.

Roy Smith · 12 August 2006, 22:01

Scorpion or revenger, i think both have agents in greece.
I would recormend Scorpion, bais as i am, we have a 8.1 went to Cowes to day from Chichester blowing force 7 was amazed at its sea keeping.
good luck on what ever you get.

toby4594 · 12 August 2006, 22:22

We were out also from chichester harbour today crossing the solent but never encountered anything like a force 7,our little zodiac would have shaken its head at that, but found it not to bad ,just got a little bit wet thats all,all part of the fun.

codprawn · 13 August 2006, 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by havener

Otherwise, Humber (Quinquari) or RedBay are well worth looking at.

One last suggestion, go for a central helm position - makes changing student drivers around much easier.

The Quinquaris are great for commercial passenger carrying if that's what you want to do - very well proven and they can assist with your business plan etc.

http://www.quinquarimarine.co.uk/

They have shipped boats all over the world so Greece shouldn't be a problem.

Aegean Lady · 13 August 2006, 09:24

Thanks for the useful information and links. I will contact these companies for more information on their ranges.

We were thinking of something around 6.5 - 7.0 m in length. I think this would be a good size for training - not too big - but large enough to be used for the 2-3 day cruises we plan. The idea is that students could come here and learn how to drive a powerboat for a few days, then take their friends/family out for a trip to other islands with our Instructor in a lead boat.

What type / size of engine would be appropriate? I imagine we'd want two engines for safety reasons but I see you can get diesel or petrol. What are the advantages/disadvantages of each as far as ribs are concerned? (I'm sure this is very basic, but I want to appear knowledgable when speaking to our Principal) Diesels are easier to maintain I think, aren't they? And the fuel is less flammable?

Initially we thougth we'd start with a variety of second hand boats, & see which we liked best for the job. However, we've found that it will be far easier to register new boats for commercial purposes here. As we'll have to spend a lot of cash, we obviously want to get it right.

rugrat · 13 August 2006, 11:26

if your planning to instruct then i would go for a single outboard installation. because an inboard can be a bit confusing for inexperianced helms
and a twin rig would over complicate things.
so yeah, single outboard probably fourstroke around the 200hp mark (imho)

BogMonster · 13 August 2006, 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aegean Lady

What type / size of engine would be appropriate? I imagine we'd want two engines for safety reasons but I see you can get diesel or petrol. What are the advantages/disadvantages of each as far as ribs are concerned? (I'm sure this is very basic, but I want to appear knowledgable when speaking to our Principal) Diesels are easier to maintain I think, aren't they? And the fuel is less flammable?

I'm relatively new to it as well but have done a fair amount of research on here and elsewhere (if you do a search on RIBnet there is tonnes and tonnes of information and discussions from people much more knowledgeable than I will ever be). From my research I suppose you could say the basic plus/minus points seem to be:

Diesel: expensive to buy but cheap to run and as you say less volatile fuel. Probably more reliable? Almost always inboard I think so will take up space in the boat, if that is important to you? Also (not 100% sure about this) I guess they are likely to be a fair bit heavier.

Petrol: cheap to buy but expensive to run (esp older 2 strokes as I am finding out!) so range could be an issue if you are going long distances and cost could be an issue if you use it every day. Almost always outboard; I guess you can get petrol inboards but they seem rare so I suppose most people think like me - I'm twitchy enough with a petrol tank between my legs never mind sitting on the bit that makes it explode too

Petrol 2 stroke vs 4 stroke: 2 stroke cheaper and lighter but older ones are MUCH more thirsty than the new ones; 4 stroke expensive and heavier so you won't get the same HP engine before you get to the limit of what the transom can carry. Is performance critical for what you want? probably not.

Single engine: less cost to buy but when the fan stops then so do you, you can use a small auxiliary engine e.g. 4-6hp as many do, this is what I am doing, but the "get you home speed" is likely to be a bit dull, probably only 5 kts or so!

Twin engine: much more expensive to buy and maintain and it seems that you lose out in terms of performance i.e. two 75hp motors will probably not go as fast as one 150hp. However if properly set up with twin fuel systems/electrics (so that fuel contamination doesn't kill both engines) you have much less chance of breakdown as you still have half the power to get home on instead of bumbling home on 4hp.

If I was buying a new rib and could afford it I would probably have twin 4 stroke petrol outboards... or maybe a diesel inboard. As I can't afford a new RIB I have ended up with a single 2 stroke thirsty petrol outboard, and a 6hp four stroke aux. To be honest this probably provides just as much fun for a lot less money, I love it anyway, it's a boat and it whizzes along nicely and those are the two most important bits for me

I also like the size of mine (5.8m) because I can handle, launch and recover it single handed with relative ease now I have had a bit of practice, and without getting my feet wet (well maybe 6 inches of water at most - ordinary welly boot depth anyway). I'm not sure I could do that with anything much bigger, but then I've only been doing it for six months so maybe I will get better at it

This is basically a distilled version of what I have read over the last six or eight months both before and after getting my first RIB so you should probably wait a while and see if anybody violently disagrees with it before taking any notice of me

codprawn · 13 August 2006, 13:26

The main things concerning choice of engine has to be cost of fuel and availability. In the UK diesels are popular as you can run on untaxed fuel so it is a hell of a lot cheaper than petrol. Commercially things are a little different becuase you can claim back the fuel duty.

I don't know what the situation is in Greece - if the fuel costs are about the same go for an outboard - if there is a big difference get a diesel - fairly simple choice as far as I can see.

Lostboy · 13 August 2006, 13:52

Ribcraft, with Evinrude 2 strokes. Still my favourite ribs for allround use

Roy Smith · 13 August 2006, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by toby4594

We were out also from chichester harbour today crossing the solent but never encountered anything like a force 7,our little zodiac would have shaken its head at that, but found it not to bad ,just got a little bit wet thats all,all part of the fun.

From Chichester to portsmouth close to shore it was ok
We then went to Cowes where the Cowes Yatch haven report said force 7
we then went to Yarmouth and to be honest it was rough came back with a following sea wind with tide and the bar was flat. the only other rib we saw was a SR10 Cougar (nice rib)

DGR · 13 August 2006, 16:49

Aegean Lady,

I would have thought that 6 to 7 metres would be ideal for what you want - small enough to teach, big enough to cruise.

Also, if you are cruising in company, I'd go with a single outboard (petrol) - twin installations are expensive!!

As for diesel - it depends what you are doing. My Ribcraft 7.8 is a great boat, but because we do a fair few hours, and the outdrive leg and engine have different service intervals, it start to be a pain when you are using it lots. At least with an outboard the whole thing is serviced in one go - much easier to keep track of (although possibly a little more expensive).

Also, if you are cruising to other islands, beaches etc, you can trim up the outboard leg much higher than an inboard leg to safely beach the boat. Even in 'trailer' mode, my outdrive leg is lower than the bottom of the transom!!

RIBs with big diesel inboards also aren't very typical if you are going to use it to teach - but so long as your syllabus covers that, or you have another boat with an outboard, it would be OK.

Hope this helps,

D...

P.S. Ribcraft are good RIBs too.

joakimhansson · 13 August 2006, 17:07

www.technohull.gr Some is designed in uk.

Scorpion build rib´s in greece...

And take a look at maestral, adboats in croatia.

toby4594 · 13 August 2006, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy Smith

From Chichester to portsmouth close to shore it was ok
We then went to Cowes where the Cowes Yatch haven report said force 7
we then went to Yarmouth and to be honest it was rough came back with a following sea wind with tide and the bar was flat. the only other rib we saw was a SR10 Cougar (nice rib)

Sorry if I seemed bullish but honest It may have gusted a seven but our rib wouldn,t have taken it ,but your right the bar was flat I was expecting it to be far worse than it was .some times I have poked my my nose out only to err on the side of cowardice and return into the harbour.The SR Cougar is that a make or a model of a make if that makes sense. Look Forward to seeing you out there Roy

Cypman · 13 August 2006, 19:14

I may be biased but we have been operating 3 Humber RIBs at our RYA Centre here in Cyprus. They are a 5m Destroyer with a Suzuki DF70, an Ocean-Pro 5.5m with a Suzuki DF90 and my own boat an Ocean-Pro 6.3m with a Suzuki DF140. All boats are extremely durable and easily handle the short seas encountered in the Eastern Med. The Suzuki four-strokes are also very reliable and durable and have proved to be extremely frugal on fuel.
Undoubtedly,there are many more options available to you but I would thoroughly recommend the 5.5 or 6.3 Ocean-Pros as very good value for money , especially as they also cope well with the rough treatment encountered at a training establishment!!

Jimbo · 13 August 2006, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cypman

I may be biased but we have been operating 3 Humber RIBs at our RYA Centre here in Cyprus. They are a 5m Destroyer with a Suzuki DF70, an Ocean-Pro 5.5m with a Suzuki DF90 and my own boat an Ocean-Pro 6.3m with a Suzuki DF140. All boats are extremely durable and easily handle the short seas encountered in the Eastern Med. The Suzuki four-strokes are also very reliable and durable and have proved to be extremely frugal on fuel.
Undoubtedly,there are many more options available to you but I would thoroughly recommend the 5.5 or 6.3 Ocean-Pros as very good value for money , especially as they also cope well with the rough treatment encountered at a training establishment!!

Cypman are you Jason?

Aegean Lady · 13 August 2006, 19:45

Thanks again to everyone - lots of useful information.

We seem to be talking about a 6-7m boat with central driving position and a single engine, possibly a 4-stroke petrol. I think we'll have to carry a second engine to pass the commercial inspection but it maybe can be a small one.

Glad that Cypman mentioned the seas. When it's blowy here we get very short uncomfortable seas - we call it the 'washing machine' effect on our yachts. Having lived on the west coast of Scotland for many years I was used to the Atlantic swell. Although the wave height is rarely as big here, the Aegean chop means that you can't ride over the waves in the same way.

I have read that some UK built RIBs are not so good in these seas. Any comments?

Nick Thomas · 13 August 2006, 21:42

I've recently bought my Avon from a dealer in Moschato - Takis Koukounaris. Very reliable, and can dodge a few expensive options (relatively) inexpensively! Although Avon's are probably a bit financially over the top for a Training Centre, he is also a Bombadier dealer. Tougher/Meaner/More Robust than Avon. You can find him on 210 942 7508. If your Greek is like mine, fret not. His English is almost perfect. He's on holiday for the next couple of weeks, but will be back early September.

Fuel. My outboard drinks Unleaded in copious quantities. I recently had a little trauma in Alimos Marina where they can only supply diesel, which is an improvement on Delta & Flisvos where they can't suply anything! Even at the local Shell Station they claimed that they could only supply diesel until an enterprising lad on the forecourt put a tank of petrol in the boot of his car & delivered that for me! Don't mention it to the HSE kill-joys! In summation, I would seriously consider diesel engines for your boat(s), purely from an ease-of-supply perspective.

codprawn · 14 August 2006, 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aegean Lady

Glad that Cypman mentioned the seas. When it's blowy here we get very short uncomfortable seas - we call it the 'washing machine' effect on our yachts. Having lived on the west coast of Scotland for many years I was used to the Atlantic swell. Although the wave height is rarely as big here, the Aegean chop means that you can't ride over the waves in the same way.

I have read that some UK built RIBs are not so good in these seas. Any comments?

Short sharp waves are horrible but deep Vs usually handle them well. My Revenger style hull is like a knife going through the water - gives a really soft ride no matter what sort of waves they are.