Another Boating Accident - Page 2

Simon B · 11 July 2006, 13:35

I pick up divers a lot with our club boat, we never turn the engine off but always recover with engine in neutral, usually the helm has to pull the divers equipment in so the killcord is disconnected from them too.

Once alongside the boat drifts onto or slightly away from either divers or a casualty, depending on what it is you need to do.

Mike B · 11 July 2006, 15:37

All depends on the situation for me. Picking up a donut rider in nice calm weather with little drift, I always cut the engine completely. With a few people on board I wouldn't want the throttle knocking in to gear by mistake. (might be over cautious, but not sure how tough the neutral lock is??)

If there is a bit of drift from either wind or tide, then neutral, but make sure I don't get involved in the recovery and protect the throttle.

In the situation of an MOB then if the conditions were bad I think I'd want the engine running, but again in neutral if possible.

As with most things IMHO it is down to individual common sense and reading the situation.

As we clearly don't know the full information on this incident then I think it is unfair to try and make any judgement on anyone - driver or casualty.

I think the most important thing is our thoughts for the people involved, irrelevent of any blame.

Mike

jgrace · 11 July 2006, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete7

Rarely turn the engine off to pick up divers, and that includes over the stern of the Pacific. Nor do many of the chater boat skippers we dive with. Its a personal choice but in 20 years of diving I can't remember having a problem.

I agree. Once my Yamaha throttle has clicked into neutral, the safety trigger has to be pulled to get it in gear again. OTOH if the engine has been cut, it's much more of a palaver to get power again if it's needed.

FWIW my take on the unfortunate accident is the guy in the water probably grabbed the boat 3/4 of the way aft where it's easiest to climb in, his legs probably floated up under the hull as they tend to when you're in the water alongside, and then because the engine was still in gear he couldn't stop them drifting aft into the propellor as the boat continued to move forward.

Jim

Jimbob · 11 July 2006, 17:49

I teach

1) A prop check before starting, as example in the med i have seen people sitting on the stearndrives, hence check before starting.

2) MOB , drift on method , light conditions - engine off
3) MOB , moderate conditions , e.g nosing up and picking up one side - engine off
4) Very bad conditions, dont be so stupid and be out there the weather forcast are plenty good enought, but in this case, you may need the control

i do understand getting caught in bad weather, but the forecast are very good these days

jgrace · 11 July 2006, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbob

I teach

1) A prop check before starting, as example in the med i have seen people sitting on the stearndrives, hence check before starting.

2) MOB , drift on method , light conditions - engine off
3) MOB , moderate conditions , e.g nosing up and picking up one side - engine off
4) Very bad conditions, dont be so stupid and be out there the weather forcast are plenty good enought, but in this case, you may need the control

i do understand getting caught in bad weather, but the forecast are very good these days

Fair enough, Jimbob. A MOB may be distressed / uncertain and I can quite see why engine off would be helpful in such a situation. But would you recommend the above techniques to pick up a wakeboarder, diver, or donutter? (assuming donutter is the right spelling)

Jim

Jimbob · 11 July 2006, 18:24

jgrace, interesting question , i think i would still consider MOB, as they are OB, i would be interst in other comments as i am always intersted in improvements

Gray · 11 July 2006, 20:57

I have been told the person / people involved in this incident had been taking illegal substances prior to it happening. If this was the case it certainly wouldn't have helped.

jwalker · 11 July 2006, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike B

...I wouldn't want the throttle knocking in to gear by mistake. (might be over cautious, but not sure how tough the neutral lock is??)

Some of the modern outboards don't even have a neutral lock. One of these and a centrally mounted throttle and you'd need to be particularly careful.

I've seen props spinning even when the lower unit is out of gear. The drag of the oil can do this. It probably wouldn't chop off your legs but I wouldn't willingly stick any part of my body into a rotating stainless prop.

Andy_Rs600 · 12 July 2006, 22:30

We teach (and do).....

Engine Always off unless:

a) there is a need to keep it on (lee shore, second set of divers surfacing, busy site, etc)
AND
b) the coxswain can stay at the controls

We have a merc centre mount box with no neutral lock.

But, we only switch it off once we have hold of the diver/MOB.

tim griffin · 13 July 2006, 08:27

Good debate on the merits of switching off or keeping the engine running . We teach engine off as is best practice for level two and then discuss in what circumstances we would leave engine on ie waves and weather and how we could recover the MOB .IF we fail to pick up MOB on the second attempt,then a Mayday Call is a must.It boils down to the person in charge and what they think is best for the conditions and their ability to recover over the side of their particular , rib or sportsboat without harming the casualty or standing the boat into danger. On a seperate note when teaching rescue helm we always leave engine on but in neutral as not wise to cut the engine in surf and need to powerout of the surf zone.

Andy_Rs600 · 13 July 2006, 18:01

Just thought....

Does anyone here emphasise the use of throw or drift lines for conscious casualties? Do people carry either or both made up on the boat? Neither is on the RYA syllabus.

rbw156 · 13 July 2006, 19:00

I carry one of these just in case:

http://www.purplemarine.com/store/pr...ucts_id=450852

tim griffin · 13 July 2006, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_Rs600

Just thought....

Does anyone here emphasise the use of throw or drift lines for conscious casualties? Do people carry either or both made up on the boat? Neither is on the RYA syllabus.

Yup always show it as part of the boats equipment on the Level 2(though not in the syllabus) and it is part of the RLSS Rescue Boat Equipment . It is loosley covered in the Safety Boat syllabus in rescuing other water users .They are a excellent addition to anyones kit .

Gray · 13 July 2006, 20:25

Today I spoke to the guy who was driving the boat and he quite graphically explained what happened.

The power boat, which is a 30ft Cabin cruiser with an inboard engine, was waiting for the lock at Hythe Marina. The helm, who is the owner of the boat had had it approximately a week but this was not his first boat, he has had several power boats but this was his first with an inboard. His mate was on his Jet Ski nearby and decided he fancied a swim so jumped in and was swimming around not far from the boat. The boat at this point was in gear with low revs. The helm had noticed his mate in the water but was concentrating on handling the boat. Meanwhile the jet skier had swum round to the back of the boat without indicating to the helm what he was going to do. He attempted to pull himself onto the small bathing platform on the back of the boat and as he did so his legs swung under the boat and his leg caught the propeller.

The helm of the boat said he felt something like the boat was grounding so he killed the engine and he heard his mate shouting for help. He went to the back of the boat and pulled his mate out the water. One of his legs was missing from the knee downwards but his foot was still attached by a tendern just dangling. His other legs had gashes and he's had to have some skin grafts around his ankle. Other than a few stitches one leg is fine. The helm used a rope to tie round the stump of the leg to stem the bleeding, aparently causing more discomfort to the jet skier than the missing leg.

From this it sounds like an unfortunate accident caused mainly by the jet skier trying to climb out and his legs swimging under. It is possible to put blame on the helm for not keeping an eye on the person in the water but he was approaching a lock and was preoccupied. There are many what if's, buts, etc and unfortunately a moment in lapse of concentration / awareness has cost a man his leg and completely changed his life.

The jet skier is aparently is very high spirits and the day after was joking about how the crabs got a good feed. He is due out of hopsital in a week and has persuaded his mate not to sell the boat which was his initial intention. He apparently wants to get back out on the water as soon as possible.

I hope his recovery goes well and we all learn a lesson / reiterate some important safety measures while out on the water.

Nos4r2 · 14 July 2006, 01:07

Jesus. I'm gobsmacked.

codprawn · 14 July 2006, 02:05

Incredible - hopefully he will get on with his life and do as much as he can. I have seen a pro mountain biker with only 1 leg - the jumps he goes over are amazing.

slimtim · 14 July 2006, 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

I have seen a pro mountain biker with only 1 leg - the jumps he goes over are amazing.

There was a guy with one arm at the student downhill champs, much faster than I was!

chuckaduck · 14 July 2006, 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon B

I pick up divers a lot with our club boat, we never turn the engine off but always recover with engine in neutral, usually the helm has to pull the divers equipment in so the killcord is disconnected from them too.

Once alongside the boat drifts onto or slightly away from either divers or a casualty, depending on what it is you need to do.

Madness what happens when the engine is ACCIDENTLY put in gear ?

Pete7 · 14 July 2006, 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckaduck

Madness what happens when the engine is ACCIDENTLY put in gear ?

Recovering a diver + kit (or MOB with an injury) isn't going to be a 15 second task. IT does take several minutes for a pair of divers to de-kit in the water and pass equipment into the boat. During this time if its windy the boat will drift faster than a diver in the water. Therefore you may have to use the engine to maintain your position relative to the person in the water. One reason we spend alot of time practicing control along side an object in the water on a PB2 course.

Yes you are right one day there might be an accident, but there have been far more incidents at the surface at the end of a dive which is why the priority will always be to get the diver back on the boat first. Keeping the engine running is a personal choice, one that I and lots of other clubs are happy with.

Pete

Mike B · 14 July 2006, 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_Rs600

Just thought....

Does anyone here emphasise the use of throw or drift lines for conscious casualties? Do people carry either or both made up on the boat? Neither is on the RYA syllabus.

One of these mounted next to my helm.

Only used it once, glad it was there - made it easier, but could have managed without.