another near fatal capsize - Page 2

Lostboy · 25 July 2006, 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

Lostboy is your mate with the bad leg called Norman?

He may be!

Bern Hanreck · 25 July 2006, 14:02

What his good leg called ?

No Offence meant guys !

If it's good enough for Dick van Dyke...........

Bern

Rogue Wave · 25 July 2006, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bern Hanreck

What his good leg called ?

No Offence meant guys !

If it's good enough for Dick van Dyke...........

Bern

Poly · 25 July 2006, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono Garton

Couldnt agree more!

On another note, I was standing on the slipway today with 6 customers when there was a big bang behind us. A boat on its trailer had come off a car while launching, it rolled down the slip in to a parked car which got pushed in to another car.

Now whos insurance does this go off? car or boat?

Jono

Both I think! If I remember rightly my car insurance covers damage to 3rd parties from "run away trailers". But any damage to the boat comes off the boats insurance.

le_forban29 · 25 July 2006, 21:20

Still, so sad to think these people have lost their lifes for lack of a proper safety equipment/training.

Just in case some of you didn't know it, the rules are different in France. You need a license to operate a boat if the engine is bigger than 6HP. Doesn't mean that the licensed ones are competent but they're supposed to have had the opportunity to learn at least.
There is a mandatory set of safety equipment to keep on board as well, including flares and life jackets but the passengers don't have to wear the life jackets at all times, you are just supposed to have them on board, available.
Authorities regularly perform routine checks for the safety equipment and license and you can be fined/jailed/stripped of your license if you break the rules.

Well, even with rules, there are accidents when people choose to ignore them.

eupa · 26 July 2006, 00:30

Both I think! If I remember rightly my car insurance covers damage to 3rd parties from "run away trailers". But any damage to the boat comes off the boats insurance.

Not on your nelly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - and this is the basic problem ---- where "we"
belgiums ( ha ha he says) has the advantage.

Car insurance will cover a trailer provided it conforms to the MMA of the vehicle while , and here's the catch.. it is attached to the car. In Belgium , trailers over 500 kgs payload MUST have a separate insurance, a special plate , and pass the MOT .This came into being because of the horror stories of runaway trailers causing damage and in some cases fatalities.For once- this makes sense.

In the case described-you will probaly find that the insurance comanies will, naturally decline responsabilty and the onus will fall on the pepetrator( is that how you spell it ??)

Jonathan

Dan Wash · 26 July 2006, 19:39

Erin is right we have JY boat registration and all that - but still last year a local beach waterski company sunk a speed boat off Gorey - overloaded ? allowed the wake to catch up ? transom too low - no idea but sink it did - paying customers left floating about. Bad scene.

Qualifications or registration can't make up for experience - or common sense, you always end up with the minimum standard

Poly · 28 July 2006, 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by eupa

Not on your nelly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - and this is the basic problem ---- where "we"
belgiums ( ha ha he says) has the advantage.

Car insurance will cover a trailer provided it conforms to the MMA of the vehicle while , and here's the catch.. it is attached to the car. In Belgium , trailers over 500 kgs payload MUST have a separate insurance, a special plate , and pass the MOT .This came into being because of the horror stories of runaway trailers causing damage and in some cases fatalities.For once- this makes sense.

In the case described-you will probaly find that the insurance comanies will, naturally decline responsabilty and the onus will fall on the pepetrator( is that how you spell it ??)

Jonathan

I have checked my car policy and it makes no specific reference to the trailer being attached to the car; and I believe the wording is such that a good lawyer would be able to claim the trailer was covered (as it was being towed - which is the terminology used) at the point the causative event happened.

However my boat insurance (which covers the trailer against theft etc) also covers damage caused by the trailer when "not attached to a motor vehicle". I believe this is really for the event that I push it into something (or manually let it roll down the slip) - rather than it becoming decoupled from the car.

DGR · 30 July 2006, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top banana

I do think thatover regulation and a nanny state, which is happening in this country has gone to far...... ......and not the sort of registrations that are purelly money grabbing. by local counsills. and have little or no effect on safety. as is the case in wales, travel down south, no registration, enough said

So are you saying that you think that the way they do it in North Wales is wrong? Or that they are grabbing?

£12 to register a powerboat is hardly going to break the bank.

It means that you have to show the HM that it's insured, and that the HM has the details of the owner and the vessel. If there is a problem with that vessel (i.e. he's a plonker) then he is easily traced. And it means that technically, every boat in the waters of North Wales should be insured (nice to know when that plonker hits you).

And a stern word from the HM if you have been reported for misbehaving is a big incentive not to repeat it. A notice 59 (or is it 80?) would focus your attention, and if you got a second one, bye bye boat. If that sort of incentive is whats needed to get people to be more sensible...then I think it's probably a good thing. And all for £12.

I don't believe in the nanny state - but until you can prosecute people for stupidity, what else can you do? I helped the ILB a few weeks ago when they were called out to a 16ft day boat who's engine has stopped (the fuel connector wasn't pushed in properly). When the ILB got there, there were 9 people on board

. With 2 lifejackets

.

Ah well...

D...

Top banana · 30 July 2006, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGR

So are you saying that you think that the way they do it in North Wales is wrong? Or that they are grabbing?

£12 to register a powerboat is hardly going to break the bank.

It means that you have to show the HM that it's insured, and that the HM has the details of the owner and the vessel. If there is a problem with that vessel (i.e. he's a plonker) then he is easily traced. And it means that technically, every boat in the waters of North Wales should be insured (nice to know when that plonker hits you).

And a stern word from the HM if you have been reported for misbehaving is a big incentive not to repeat it. A notice 59 (or is it 80?) would focus your attention, and if you got a second one, bye bye boat. If that sort of incentive is whats needed to get people to be more sensible...then I think it's probably a good thing. And all for £12.

I don't believe in the nanny state - but until you can prosecute people for stupidity, what else can you do? I helped the ILB a few weeks ago when they were called out to a 16ft day boat who's engine has stopped (the fuel connector wasn't pushed in properly). When the ILB got there, there were 9 people on board

. With 2 lifejackets

.

Ah well...

D...

Firstly, im not saying that registation is wrong if it did actually do what its supposed to, but as soon as youve registered either by post or to the harbour
master in person. whos to say that the person in control of the vessell ,is the keeper or the insured. without going the full route of a license with identity.Then take account of all the private beeches with boats launching ,no insurance or registration, Most of my boating is in North wales. with familly and kids so safetyand enjoyment is my main concern,but the current system of a £12 registration seems inadequate to say the least.But i suppose that you have to start somwhere. It allso appears that most people on this forum are safety sonscious, may be the fact that ribs tend to cover bigger distances in more challenging conditions,but then back to the rant.

Nanny state, Health and safety. Dont climb that! lift that!do this! do that! but you can, launch a 250,000 cruiser,with no qualifications, and then drive it out to sea. as long as youve paid your £12 registration.and can afford the fuel to get out the harbour.

We had the customs and excise round our way this week, prosecuting people for running on cooking oil,I might open a chip shop in pwythelli next year

Stormchild · 09 August 2006, 04:29

I'm no fan of the nanny state, but the crazy behaviour we all see far to often exhibited by muppets like these, will no doubt one day bring about some kind of formal registration and regulation, which will be very expensive to administrate and police. The cost of which will end up being born by us. But its not just speed boaters that do it. Last season I heard a transmission from a day fishing charter boat out of bridlington, that was reporting a small yacht having lost its rudder, there was one woman in the water, who was hanging onto the side of the fishing boat, and another bloke drifting very fast towards flamborough head in a 4 - 5 in his 8 - 10 foot sailing dinghy. I was less than a mile away and assisted, recovering the 2 numpties and towing the boat back to the beach, where he was met by the coast guard mobile. Granted they had bouyancy aids on - oh and the dinghy had a sail, but that was it. Were it not for the fishing boat spotting them, they would have been utterly compromised.
By virtue of the fact that we have all chosen RIB's for our boating; we enjoy going into what is often a difficult & dangerous environment, in pursuit of our leisure and push our own boundaries for the exhilaration and fun of it all - The best thing we can all do is continue to demonstrate responsible seamanship and lead by example........and avoid all attempts to bring about mandatory regulations / licensing which will not achieve anything other than to cost a fortune and restrict us. We'll end up being brought to book for having all of the right qualifications, insurances, well maintained equipment, passage planning etc, because on one occasion, we've not got a piece of paper with us on the day they chose to look at our vessel on the slipway........