another near fatal capsize

Top banana · 22 July 2006, 21:39

whille out on the iow ribnet raid on 16th heard on radio that a spead boat had capsized with four people in the water off st Catherines point. just read that they were spotted and picked up by a local fisherman. near to death with no life jackets, vhf, phone, flares, or any survival equipment, apears that the boat took in water and capsized. coast guard said a few more minutes and the outcome would of been four fatalities. im amazed at how many folk you see on boats including kids with no life jackets on. are these idiots real, not only putting there own lives at risk, but those allso who try and rescue them.
im presuming this is the same incident

eupa · 23 July 2006, 14:20

I believe the proeblem is down to people's attitude to boating. I am on my hobby- horse and will probbaly get pilloried for this.

A lot of people think "boating" ...now for a bit of fun.... ect ect. Boating is basically un-regulated. Whether that's good or bad - I don't know.
People must realize that they are uisng machinery- often in excess of 150 hp
in an envirornment that they have little or no experience.

Therefore, you would imagine that people should be over-cautious in all aspects. Hell no- lets bomb around, who needs a lifejacket?, flares what are you talking about?? When people are on the roads- they behave in a completly different manner- Why because the roads and driving a car is stricly controlled. Everybody now wears a seatbelt . Why? because if you dont .you get fined..Most people respect the speed limits- .Why ?if you dont -- you get fined .

I watched in fascination, a guy at Nieuwport putting his rib on a trailer. The wind blew him off a bit. and he was askew on his rollers.Very simple--reverse and try again... no way... he leaves the motor turning, gets off the boat wades to the back and proceeds to hand -lever the boat- with the engine churning away in front of him!!!!!!!! ( I believe it was a 50 hp)- must be a relation of Rob Jones

To go out in a boat without lifejackets is asking for trouble. Invarably its other people who have to pick up the pieces for other peoples lack of what???
- I suppose COMMON SENSE

Jonathan

Top banana · 23 July 2006, 14:48

I do think thatover regulation and a nanny state, which is happening in this country has gone to far, after all what happened to common scence being the rule of thumb. then you see kids on boats with little protection from the elements, and no life jacket, and you start to wonder if some sort of basic licensing is required, and not the sort of registrations that are purelly money grabbing. by local counsills. and have little or no effect on safety. as is the case in wales, travel down south, no registration, enough said

Noddy · 23 July 2006, 15:53

The trouble is eventually these morons will spoil it for the rest of us. The Government will see it as another way of gaining revenue by either taxing boats according to their length and power or ensuring that you take some sort of test to prove you are competent to drive a boat. It will only take a few more accidents for them to justify it under health and safety legislation!!
Martyn

Ribald · 23 July 2006, 16:03

As part of my role with a well known Harbour Patrol, we have been asked to advise folks if we think that either their boat or their personal equipment is lacking for a trip on the water. I have lost count of the number of times we have been told to "go away

" and heard "what the f*** has it got to do with you". But there again I suppose we are seen as "authority" along the lines of traffic wardens (as at least one member of this forum seems to think we are

) Perhaps we should have the boats re-labeled with the words "Harbour Safety Patrol"

Stuart M · 23 July 2006, 21:47

I hate this nanny state as much as the next person but this just beggers belief!

I just purchased a small pond pump for a water feature in my garden. Enclosed in the box is a leaflet advising me to notify the local building control so they can advise me what action I need to take (I kid you not).

However any idiot can jump in a boat after having a few drinks without any knowledge of what they are doing and that's Ok!

Somethings wrong someone - me thinks.

Rogue Wave · 24 July 2006, 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ribald

. But there again I suppose we are seen as "authority" along the lines of traffic wardens (as at least one member of this forum seems to think we are

)

that'll be me then!

Moving on to more important things, Its very easy for me as an instructor to say that training should be compulsary so I wont, But I do think that a reasonable level of competence needs to be proved so maybe a test is in order.

Lifejackets, yeah I guess they should be worn at all times by exerybody but it aint gonna happen (bit like setabelts ) howevr I definitely hav ben please to notice a major increase in the number of boats coming out of the Hanble and Itchen whose crews have been wearing lifejackets inc a lot of big crusers

Ribald · 24 July 2006, 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

that'll be me then!

In that case, RW - there's two of you

Would agree with your comment about more peeps wearing l/j's on the bigger boats & saily thingies but not noticed a lot of change on the smaller sports boats which are the ones that seem to have the problems.

Erin · 24 July 2006, 10:29

Perhaps safety equipment should be a demand of the insurers of our boats. That way we would be duty bound to have a certain amount of saftey gear to comply with the insurance requirments.

I think they have legislation if France to even confiscate boats that aren't properly equipped. Though I have to say some of the French boats I've seen are less prepared than ours and handled by incompetent people.

Lostboy · 24 July 2006, 11:26

Interesting comment about the French, they clearly have to register their boats with the local port authority and display numbers etc as I have NEVER seen a French rib without prominent reg numbers all over it. I assume that comes with some sort of inspection as most seem to be reasonably well equipped but they certainly have the same lackadasical approach to lifejackets and safety generally that is being discussed on this thread. It's up to us as skippers to engender the right attitude and hope that his creeps through the boating world.

Erin · 24 July 2006, 14:56

We have to register any boat that is capable of more than 7 knots or is 14, can't remember right now. You then get a 'JY' speedboat number after you have shown that you have third party insurance cover. Daft thing is that you only need cover for the day you register it. They don't need proof that the insurance is for the full year. It doesn't stop the idiots mind you or the ill prepared from having problems.

Lostboy · 24 July 2006, 16:20

I still find it slightly strange that we still only need to offer ANY information on a voluntary basis through the MCA CG66 scheme. I wouldn't mind being a victim of a bit of big brother attitude if it meant that me, the family and a LOT of other water users would not be put at risk by unskilled, unprepared and uninsured craft users.

I am also a windsurfer and a mate of mine got hit by an uninsured jet ski pilot a few years ago and had to take a considerable time off work to get his leg re-built etc. No financial recompense or assistance for his treatment as the bloke was not only uninsured but wasn't worth sueing either!

Jimmy_Beam · 24 July 2006, 17:12

Interesting topic with many viewpoints.

In the U.S. we are required to have flares, life jackets, whistle, fire extinguisher, and a few other items. I have been a whitewater rafter most of my life and I allways wear a life jacket on a river, but sadly I haven't gotten into the habit of wearing it on my boat unless the seas are rough. I don't require passengers to wear them either unless they are under the age of 15, but I allways recommend them. The more accidents I see where a jacket has saved lives, the more I am considering buying a comfortable life jacket and using it allways. Glad to see these people survived, and I hope others will learn from it.

Jimmy

Scary Des · 24 July 2006, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Beam

.............. The more accidents I see where a jacket has saved lives, the more I am considering buying a comfortable life jacket and using it allways. ................ Jimmy

How many people die in the US in boating related drowning?Des

Top banana · 24 July 2006, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ribald

As part of my role with a well known Harbour Patrol, we have been asked to advise folks if we think that either their boat or their personal equipment is lacking for a trip on the water. I have lost count of the number of times we have been told to "go away

" and heard "what the f*** has it got to do with you". But there again I suppose we are seen as "authority" along the lines of traffic wardens (as at least one member of this forum seems to think we are

) Perhaps we should have the boats re-labeled with the words "Harbour Safety Patrol"

Dont suppose it could of been four persons in a small speedboat who told you
to "go away" and what the f*** has it got to do with you before heading out
to st catherines, Could it!

LURCHER · 24 July 2006, 22:51

Originally Posted by Ribald
. But there again I suppose we are seen as "authority" along the lines of traffic wardens (as at least one member of this forum seems to think we are )

So what exactly do you do that is so important to Portsmouth Harbour ?

Rogue Wave · 24 July 2006, 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ribald

In that case, RW - there's two of you

Would agree with your comment about more peeps wearing l/j's on the bigger boats & saily thingies but not noticed a lot of change on the smaller sports boats which are the ones that seem to have the problems.

Well I am a Gemini!

The small speedboat is the last bastion of the young stud, it's also an incredibly eaasy in to boating. you can get a Fletcher GTO with a 70 for probaly under 600 quid Why waste another 800 hundred on a couple of trining courses and 4 lifejackets!

Somebody made a comment about insurance and somebody else made a comment about impounding.......I think that is the answer compulsary insurance and the boat gets impounded if you cant produce the insurance doc's or relevant safety stuff

Jono Garton · 24 July 2006, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

I think that is the answer compulsary insurance and the boat gets impounded if you cant produce the insurance doc's or relevant safety stuff

Couldnt agree more!

On another note, I was standing on the slipway today with 6 customers when there was a big bang behind us. A boat on its trailer had come off a car while launching, it rolled down the slip in to a parked car which got pushed in to another car.

Now whos insurance does this go off? car or boat?

Jono

Rogue Wave · 25 July 2006, 00:20

Lostboy is your mate with the bad leg called Norman?

jyasaki · 25 July 2006, 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scary Des

How many people die in the US in boating related drowning?Des

The last year I could find was for 2004. Fatalities on water are listed at 676. At that time, the 10 year high was in 1995 at 829. 10 year low was actually 2004. These figures include all boat related deaths.

The report states that approximately 70% drowned (484 out of 676); 90% of the drowning victims were not wearing lifejackets (431?)

70% of all fatalities occured on a vessel where the operator had no formal training in operation (not a big surprise there; that's half the information you need to draw a conclusion.)

Report is viewable online at:

http://www.uscgboating.org/statistic...stics_2004.pdf

jky