another newly purchased boat ill equiped rescued

[m chappelow]

looks like people still do not see the dangers of coastal passages ill equiped ,,according to humberside news and the mca website ,a newly purchased 30 foot river boat was rescued by the Humber lifeboat early this morning in freezing gale force conditions after it was on passage from Ripon near York down the Humber and then into the north sea for a voyage to lowestof and then on to london ,no flares were carried,compass was not working and the initial call was by mobile phone ,,thankfully the lifeboat d/f on a weak signal from a handheld vhf ,,though from accounts looks like the operater had no radio experience ,,,thoughts go out for the lifeboat crew as it was 28 years ago last night that the penlee lifeboat was lost with all the crew ,leaving 12 children without a father for xmas ,,,might have been safer trucking the boat down by road .

[C2 RIBS]

Beggars Belief!!!!

At 02 26 this morning Yarmouth Coastguard received a 999 call on mobile phone from a 30 ft motor cruiser the LADY3.

The owner of the vessel said that she had suffered engine failure at 10 00 pm Saturday evening just off the mouth of the River Humber and had anchored. She had no means of fixing her position; her compass wasnt working and she had lost heating. At the time the wind was near gale force, with a heavy sea and swell, accompanied by snow showers; dangerously cold and forecast to get worse in the area.

She said they did not know the area in which they were adrift as the vessel had only been purchased in Rippon yesterday and she was taking it to London, via Lowestoft. The vessel carried no flares and had only a stern and starboard side light. She did have lifejackets for her crew and herself and the Coastguard advised them to them on immediately.

Yarmouth Coastguard asked her to switch to Channel 16 on her VHF set but her main set batteries were frozen and it would not work, but the vessel did have a working handset and managed to use that instead. Bearings from her calls because of snow showers and lack of procedural etiquette were poor as Yarmouth and Humber Coastguard struggled to obtain a fix on her sea position.

Further calls to her mobile phone were now going direct to voice mail. Therefore Humber RNLI All weather lifeboat was launched to the general area and managed to home in on their very weak signal. When they arrived on scene they discovered a couple in their early 60s onboard, wet, suffering seasickness and hypothermia.

Humber Lifeboat put one of their crew on the Lady 3 and towed her to Grimsby, arriving at 0500 this morning where, she was met by Cleethorpes Coastguard and the individuals onboard obtained medical assistance, from an ambulance crew and they are both making a good recovery.

Watch Manager Mario Siano at MRCC Yarmouth said;

We find it very hard to believe anyone would put to sea in a small motor cruiser, so poorly prepared, with little sea going knowledge, in the dead of night in such conditions and with the weather forecast to get worse. My Watch team and I do not think that they realise how dangerous the situation was that they were in.

At one stage it seemed so unbelievable I thought we were dealing with a hoax!

Their lives were probably saved by the fact they did break down and were therefore not able to proceed further to sea and out of contact range in such conditions.

They basically failed to heed the excellent safety messages contained in the MCA calendar 2010 for the months of Jan/Feb/Mar/Apr/May/Jun/Sep and Oct. Some still available from most Coastguard Stations!

Luckily there is a happy ending thanks to excellent work by the crew of the Humber RNLI Lifeboat and the joint efforts of Yarmouth and Humber Coastguard.

[chewy]

It is hard to believe that people do this and been honest apart from compulsory training I don't know what the answer would be.
Last week I saw a couple of kayakers one was fine the other constantly rolling and falling out. It was his first time out and the sea was rough, he didn't want any help but went ashore after that.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by chewy

It is hard to believe that people do this and been honest apart from compulsory training I don't know what the answer would be.

Not sure that would have prevented this -- some people would choose just to go without the training (possibly more likely to go in the dark, in winter when less likely to get 'checked'). Would training have prevented this? Not necessarily as discussed on another thread here a week ago - you can't train people in common sense. In fact these people may even have felt more confident in their voyage because they were trained.

However that said - I'm going to be contraversial and say that I don't think the problem with the above story was the lack of equipment (I'm not condoning making that trip without a working compass or flares) but the judgement that said "setting out in bad weather, in the dark, in an area they didn't know well" was a good idea. Regulation will tend to focus on the tangible - so having the flares and compass.

Darwin has the answer...

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Not sure that would have prevented this -- some people would choose just to go without the training (possibly more likely to go in the dark, in winter when less likely to get 'checked'). Would training have prevented this? Not necessarily as discussed on another thread here a week ago - you can't train people in common sense. In fact these people may even have felt more confident in their voyage because they were trained.

However that said - I'm going to be contraversial and say that I don't think the problem with the above story was the lack of equipment (I'm not condoning making that trip without a working compass or flares) but the judgement that said "setting out in bad weather, in the dark, in an area they didn't know well" was a good idea. Regulation will tend to focus on the tangible - so having the flares and compass.

Darwin has the answer...

Yep.

You can't legislate against stupidity.

[JSP]

More money than sense.

[chewy]

If you had to have some sort of formal qualification to insure the boat they may be some incentive to have training.
As it is now anyone can buy a boat, sink it then put a claim in.

When I rang around for quotes the fact I had RYA tickets meant nothing, the lass said it was just like having a driving license at which point I gave up!

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by chewy

If you had to have some sort of formal qualification to insure the boat they may be some incentive to have training.
As it is now anyone can buy a boat, sink it then put a claim in.

When I rang around for quotes the fact I had RYA tickets meant nothing, the lass said it was just like having a driving license at which point I gave up!

I think you have hit the nail on the head there, if the insurance companies reward people for getting training then people would at least be making an informed decision.

Mind you, what is to say the people in last night's example had insurance?

I wonder if the lifeboats being able to put a salvage claim in to the insurer would get their attention and lead the underwriters to ask the question "How can we encourage our customers to be safer at sea?".

[Poly]

Originally Posted by malthouse

Mind you, what is to say the people in last night's example had insurance?

You're also assuming that they didn't have any tickets. I'm not convinced the "problem" is really getting any "worse"?

[Bam Bam]

Keel haul them at 30 knotts, they wont do it again. The did well to get into the mouth of the Humber as there are lots of navigation hazards. It's about eight hours from Ripon to Naburn if you stick to the river speed limit and don't get held up at Linton lock which wouldn't be a problem at this time of year. Once you pass the lock at Naburn just South of York though it gets worse and once you approach Goole and into the Humber estuary itself you are well open to the elements. But! common sense would tell you if it is safe to proceed. Bloody numpties.

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by malthouse

I wonder if the lifeboats being able to put a salvage claim in to the insurer would get their attention and lead the underwriters to ask the question "How can we encourage our customers to be safer at sea?".

Sounds like a start to resolve the issues,
also if people fail to get insurance then surely a salvage claim on the boat?

I am not sure the rescue services would support this strong approach?

[chris123]

There seems to be a lot of it about at the moment

12/12/09

The Harwich RNLI Inshore Lifeboat was launched to assist the 38ft yacht “ Solo “ adrift at the” Platters Anchorage” Of Harwich. The yacht with one person onboard was taken in tow to Shotley marina where repairs to her engine could be made.

13/12/09

The Harwich RNLI Inshore Lifeboat was called out at 04.40am to assist the 38ft Yacht “ Solo” with one person onboard. The yacht had again suffered engine problems, but this time at the “ Pye Sands”. He was taken in tow back to Shotley Marina.

I don't know what the answer is - I suspect legislation will only make things more difficult for the law abiding (the numpties will just ignore the law). The threat of salvage will I suspect just mean that casualties will try and put off calling the emergency services, potentially increasing the risk both to themselves and the emergency services.

Cheers

Chris

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by Polwart

I'm not convinced the "problem" is really getting any "worse"?

Neither am I, but it frustrates me that marine insurance companied do not exercise an ability to influence either thefts or accidents.

Were it not for volunteer lifeboat crews, such misadventure* would be either terminal or expensive.

The insurance industry is benefitting from the hard work of others.

* And yes, I have been hauled in by an orange boat more than once.

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by chris123

There seems to be a lot of it about at the moment

A guy was towed in here recently, ran out of fuel while crossing the channel. He complained bitterly that the tow did not put him along side so he could fuel up and set off again.

He had been told that his VHF set was transmitting a blank carrier, but cared not one fig.

In my humble opinion the skipper was using the tow as a free recovery service, it was taken 100% for granted.

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

I am not sure the rescue services would support this strong approach?

Maybe the rescue services should not to the strong approach part? If the CG believe the skipper put people at risk they have existing powers to take matters further, perhaps they could impound the boat if they feel justified?

[chewy]

Originally Posted by malthouse

Maybe the rescue services should not to the strong approach part? If the CG believe the skipper put people at risk they have existing powers to take matters further, perhaps they could impound the boat if they feel justified?

Its swings and round abouts, "innocent" people would worry that they boats would get impounded and not call the CG, the same reason the RNLI don't charge for callouts.
I know where your coming from though.

[spartacus]

Complete madness. Even an experienced skipper would have reservations about heading to sea in a boat he/she was unfamiliar with, especially at the dead of night. Short of invoicing them for the rescue - what can you do?

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

Further calls to her mobile phone were now going direct to voice mail.

"Hello, you have reached the Lady 3. Unfortunately, we can't take your call just now as we are busy sinking. Please leave a message, and should we survive, we will call you back at our earliest opportunity. Should you be calling from Her Majesty's Lifeboat Service, we would appreciate your getting here just as soon as possible. Thank you for calling..."

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Erin]

Sadly legislation is spoiling life and freedom for more of us than it protects. Look at car insurance - illegal to drive without it, but look how many people that do! I really can't see how more marine legislation is going to make a difference. There will always be ignorant and foolhardy people out there, and why should I be penalised for their stupidity or arrogance.

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by Erin

Sadly legislation is spoiling life and freedom for more of us than it protects.

Definitely agree, but I still feel that historically it is the marine insurance industry that has been "encouraged" to promote safe practices and that this is the way to go.

Lots of people go to the time and expense of getting training and sharing experience, without any kind of reward or acknowledgment from their insurer.

Mind you, trained and experienced people can still be stupid and arrogant. But at least their insurance would be lower.