Anyone else breaking the law? Towing again...

Brambles · 16 August 2004, 19:32

Hi,

Sorry in advance if I am in the minority regarding knowledge of this area of the law.

I need some clarification of something that was pointed out to us last week by a driving instructor, regarding the relationship between the kerb weight of a tow vehicle and the size of the trailer it is towing. In fairness he did say that the Police don't seem to be aware of it either, but you can bet your life that the insurance companies do!

Here is an extract from the Department of Transport website (http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...ds_506866.hcsp) that explains the area that he was talking about.

"The following is a summary of the main requirements.

Dimensions

If however the gross weight of the towing vehicle is 3.5 tonnes or less then the maximum permissible width and length (of the trailer) are 2.3 metres and 7 metres respectively."

A quick scan of the What Car website indicates that all 4x4s (including Range Rovers & VW Touaregs) have a kerb weight of less than 3.5 tonnes.

Does this mean that no 4x4 (regardless of manufacturers towing claims) can legally tow any rib longer than 7m? Even a 6m rib with the tubes deflated could exceed the width limit. Where does this leave people who tow boats behind estate cars?

What size boats do you guys tow, and what vehicle do you use? Any feedback would be appreciated.

Regards.

John Kennett · 16 August 2004, 19:47

Those dimensions apply to the trailer itself, but the boat can overhang in all dimensions. Do a search here for "trailer" and you'll find some useful stuff!

John

Richard B · 16 August 2004, 21:12

It also excludes the "drawbar".

You should also find a reference to "indivisible loads" which is poorly defined, but seems to sugest that if your load can't be chopped in two then you can go over 7m.

Anyone ever towed one of those glider trailers?

Tim M · 17 August 2004, 01:27

Quote:

Anyone ever towed one of those glider trailers?

Saw one on ebay a couple of weeks ago; how can you get away with towing that, since the load is inside the trailer rather than on top?

Jono Garton · 17 August 2004, 08:01

We have had a trailer made that is 7m long + 2m Draw bar + we are allowed a 2m overhang so in theory can tow 10m ish rib legally.

Jono Garton · 17 August 2004, 08:05

The over thing i was told the other day. Most family cars can only tow 500kg unbraked not 750kg !!!

Did any one see Oban Coast Guards litte accident??? 23ft rib 3000kg loaded up with fuel, being towed with landy on a SINGLE axle trailer??? They rolled the rig 3 times and destroyed £125'000 worth of kit.

Lucky the Ambulance was following them to the shout! All survived.

TIM · 17 August 2004, 09:01

ALSO, with a trailer behind, you are allowed an all up weight , or Gross Train Weight of 5500kg , but the tow car/jeep cant be more than 3500kg

PS I often tow at 6500-7000 GTW, Police dont have a clue

Jono Garton · 17 August 2004, 09:07

Because our maximum authorised mass is greater than 3500kg combined - Land rover 90 and trailer for business use, we have a tacho installed!!!

Scary Des · 17 August 2004, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIM

PS I often tow at 6500-7000 GTW, Police dont have a clue

They do now

Des

jwalker · 17 August 2004, 12:29

And they probably did before.

Andy Gee · 17 August 2004, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIM

ALSO, with a trailer behind, you are allowed an all up weight , or Gross Train Weight of 5500kg , but the tow car/jeep cant be more than 3500kg

PS I often tow at 6500-7000 GTW, Police dont have a clue

Plod and his Ministry Pals were out here today stopping everthing with a trailer. First time I went passed there was 3 4x4s parked up beside the portable weighbridge

, two with mini diggers on them and one with a Binliner (bayliner) about 30' long, ther were still there 2 hours later.
Andy

CJL · 17 August 2004, 14:29

I do a lot of work with the Met Police and our ongoing blitz on commercial vehicles has included towing vehicles and VOSA (the old vehicle inspectorate) can have you over a portable wieghbridge in seconds. Its quite amazing watching them take apart a HGV in 10 mins. On one stop session 15 HGvs went home on a low loader with prohibition notices.

Interestingly they pulled one rib and two plastic fantastics. Both the plastic fantastics had gas on board and no TREM cards and the rib was massively nose heavy but it was reloaded and let off.

CJL

Mark Halliday · 17 August 2004, 14:51

TREM cards.
What are they and is this something else I should have?

CJL · 17 August 2004, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Halliday

TREM cards.
What are they and is this something else I should have?

They are the Orange Plates displayed on wagons carrying hazardous material in large quantities. If you have a very small cylinder on a boat for private resaons you should be OK.

I don't know the quantities which mean you have a TREM plate. Speak to your local traffic police and ask for the HAZ-MAT Officer.

CJL

Mark Halliday · 17 August 2004, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJL

They are the Orange Plates displayed on wagons carrying hazardous material in large quantities. If you have a very small cylinder on a boat for private resaons you should be OK.
CJL

Ta mate. Not a problem for me then. Only large amount of gas on board is curry & beer induced.

Kristian · 17 August 2004, 15:21

Max towing weights and particularly sizes is always a nightmare as it can be dependent on so many variables. Not only the towing vehicle but the purpose of its use can also be a factor.

Boat trailers cause even more of a problem as the whole drawbar length thing comes into play! Its difficult to get an answer that will cover all areas and the only way to find out is to contact the DVLA and discuss your exact circumstances. They have always been good to be fair and we've hit them with some good questions. Lifeboat trailers have brought about the most interesting conversations.

How come no-ever seems to get stopped and i'm pulled regularly??

Red Fox · 17 August 2004, 15:31

Don't drive so slowly in certain parts of town then!

CJL · 17 August 2004, 15:43

Try this web site

www.ntta.co.uk

CJL

TIM · 17 August 2004, 20:35

In the UK I wouldnt get away with it,

In more than 10 years of driving, vans, trucks and towing I have never been wieghted once or had a vehicle check in Ireland. the only exception being dipped for green diesel buy the Customs (red Diesel in the UK)

I was stoped in the UK twice, once in a truck, and I was wieghed, and one coming off a ferry with a yacht behind, which they checked lights and tyres, that happened in france too, but the also messures the lenght of the tow and it was 19.5m, which is longer than a truck, but they let me away because of the overhang rule, and a 'gift' of a bottle of whiskey

codprawn · 17 August 2004, 20:57

The trouble is none of our laws ever make sense! Surely there is something wrong with a system where you don't know if you are doing anything wrong or not!

To me I know if I break into someone's house, mug an old lady or rape someone I am doing something very wrong and quite rightly should be punished for it - what i don't like is to find that suddenly you can be classified as a criminal for the slightest thing - and good old Blair is now making things even worse by making it ok for the police to arrest someone for the slightest thing - even dropping litter!

There are some crazy laws that nobody really understands on storing and transporting petrol - you can't legally BUY more than 10 litres in a can at any one time so to legally fill a jerry can you must half fill it - go and pay - then put the other 10 litres into it!!!