Anyone ever witnessed a handle or cleat being pulled off?

[HUMBER P4VWL]

fair points.

[Poly]

Paul, They are not really "fair points", they are the same old arguments about "lack of respect for other people's property" mixed up with the "it might fail and your boat drift off". The two arguments contradict each other: if the boat owner expected the rubber cleat might fail then I think you can assume he wouldn't use it (the second argument), but since he has used it, it seems obvious to me that the person tying off on the rubber cleat didn't consider it to be a weak point and therefore can't really be accused of "not having respect for others property". Not respecting it, and not understanding how harm might come to it are two different things.

We've seen here a number of people including a tube builder who think it is OK to use them for tying up in sensible conditions. That says to me its not as clear cut as careless car door use in car parks, or chucking fag packets out the window.

Knowing how yachties get uptight about people crossing their boats in a raft I can also imagine that some owners might feel more comfortable using the closest cleat rather than the strongest, if that meant climbing on board. I can also imagine a thread on here in the future where someone says "I can't believe some ejit tied off to my a-frame with his rope rubbing over the top of my tube. FFS there are cleats on the tubes so you don't need trailing ropes - use them!".

Since its not clear cut I don't even think its a matter of seamanship and I can imagine some RYA instructors teach people not to use them whilst others will probably use the cleats for demonstrating tying up! At the end of the day if you put something that looks like a cleat on a boat in a busy harbour you can't really complain if someone ties a rope to it.

Personally I have real cleats on my plastic tubes and you are welcome to tie onto them.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Paul, They are not really "fair points", they are the same old arguments about "lack of respect for other people's property" mixed up with the "it might fail and your boat drift off". The two arguments contradict each other: if the boat owner expected the rubber cleat might fail then I think you can assume he wouldn't use it (the second argument), but since he has used it, it seems obvious to me that the person tying off on the rubber cleat didn't consider it to be a weak point and therefore can't really be accused of "not having respect for others property". Not respecting it, and not understanding how harm might come to it are two different things.

We've seen here a number of people including a tube builder who think it is OK to use them for tying up in sensible conditions. That says to me its not as clear cut as careless car door use in car parks, or chucking fag packets out the window.

Knowing how yachties get uptight about people crossing their boats in a raft I can also imagine that some owners might feel more comfortable using the closest cleat rather than the strongest, if that meant climbing on board. I can also imagine a thread on here in the future where someone says "I can't believe some ejit tied off to my a-frame with his rope rubbing over the top of my tube. FFS there are cleats on the tubes so you don't need trailing ropes - use them!".

Since its not clear cut I don't even think its a matter of seamanship and I can imagine some RYA instructors teach people not to use them whilst others will probably use the cleats for demonstrating tying up! At the end of the day if you put something that looks like a cleat on a boat in a busy harbour you can't really complain if someone ties a rope to it.

Personally I have real cleats on my plastic tubes and you are welcome to tie onto them.

Crikey! sombody's tired. Rough day Polly?

[HUMBER P4VWL]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Crikey! sombody's tired. Rough day Polly?

Polwarts don't normally bark.

I meant fair points re idiots in general. As there are stories on here of people tying up in just an arse of a manner, irrespective of the cleats with no consideration of their or the other's boat.

I think i would tie off to a rubber cleat if in my judgement it looked appropriate for the boats involved and the prevailing conditions. Thread has produced some good descriptions of events though. Keep em coming.

[BogMonster]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Not floating ones anyway

In which case I will be tied to them, rather than the other way round. The crew left some time ago