Automatic Fire Extinguishers

[Nate]

Does anyone (Pete - Des!) know about fitting automatic fire extinguishers on a Pacific 22? My insurance company don't seem to accept that you can shove a nozzle down the specially designed hole in the engine box...

I've just got an insurance proposal form and it reckons automatic extinguishers must be fitted - "in the engine area and tank space". Will this mean something in the underfloor fuel tank area too?

I've found a supplier, but this kit's not cheap!

[Pete7]

Yep not cheap, but I went for it anyway. Mounted on the back wall of the engine box, starboard side. Came from Ocean Safety in Southampton, can't remember the price but was over £100. I also carry a couple of AFFF (brilliant stuff) and a 4 kg Dry Powder, but dread using the dry powder in the engine bay.

Query them about the tank location though. There are no electrics limited access and its diesel.

Pete

[Nate]

Thanks Pete - is yours mounted vertically or horizontally? Any pictures?

[Searider]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Query them about the tank location though. There are no electrics limited access and its diesel.

Pete

Hi Nate/Pete,

The requirement for automatics (or remotely operated) extinguishers in the engine space and tank space is likely to be part of the "Speedboat Clauses" for vessels that travel at more than 17 knots. You might want to check if there are any exclusions for cover to underwater gear as well.

As Pete says - have a chat with your insurers.

Duncan

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by Searider

......... You might want to check if there are any exclusions for cover to underwater gear as well......

Good Point Aim for £5K cover for out-drive damage, I think a lot of insurance companies only cover up to £3K
.

Originally Posted by Pete7

I also carry a couple of AFFF (brilliant stuff) ......

Do you mean AFFF Or Halon replacement In my experience AFFF was nowhere near as good as some.
AFFF relies on smothering the fire so needs total cover of the flames whereas Halon and halon replacement gasses starve the flames by competing for the oxygen and can work in as lower concentrations as 10% by vol
Also organic AFFF is blood and guts in fact any source of protein that MacDonald’s can’t sell as burgers, and it stinks

Originally Posted by Pete7

........ a 4 kg Dry Powder, but dread using the dry powder in the engine bay......

I agree powder will result in the writing-off of an engine because of secondary damage where halon wouldn’t I wonder what the insurance position is on this

I do not understand why they banned halon, OK it is allegedly an ozone depletant but how much ozone depleting gas does an engine fire release which could be avoided if an effective fire extinguisher was available Des

[Nate]

Gentlemen,

many thanks for that! The propsoal form only requires a figure for "Vessel and inboard machinery" does that not include the outdrive?

Also have had a brilliant quote for an Automatic extinguisher, but it's dry powder - when Des refers to wrecking the engine what does that mean - am I being naive in thinking powder just needs cleaning off?

[hard1]

Not when it's ingested by the diesel air intake!

CO2 CO2 CO2 (if it's legal in that application)

No the leg is not inboard machinery. It applies to enclosed machinery spaces. Propulsion, generators, pumps.

[Pete7]

Des, spent a fortnight on a fire fighting course a long time ago. Very impressive demo of AFFF on top of a mix of old petrol, avgas and diesel, it burst into flames when they poured burning oil onto the mix as you would expect, but having used an ordinary AFFF extingiusher we couldn't then re-light it again. Apparently it takes a week or so for the AFFF to break down just in time for the next course.

Agree though that letting 4 kgs of talc loose in an engine bay is going to make one hell of a mess and if it gets into the turbo so I carry a range of extinguishers. Actually it was Duncan made me do it

Nate, its mounted vetically with the glass / nozzle at the bottom.

Keep the CO2 extguishers for cooling the beer down on a hot day

[Scary Des]

Pete

Originally Posted by Pete7

………. Very impressive demo of AFFF on top of a mix of old petrol, avgas and diesel, it burst into flames when they poured burning oil …..:

I’ve given the same demo myself and yes I agree that on burning fuel AFFF is good but in an engine bay it is difficult to get to all the nooks and crannies so you do find that although you knock down the flames directly in front of you the fire can still be burning where you can’t get to it

My experience is mainly with simulated fires on a test rig or deliberate car fires and without question Halon was best followed by dry powder, then AFFF and CO2 was useless.
However things are a bit different in a boat engine bay. One difference is that the engine bay on a car is open at the bottom so it is impossible to control the air and foam pours through to road below. With a more enclosed space CO2 or foam might be more effective.

Des

[Daniel TD5]

as me being a fire engineer

i would say that any gas that removes the air from the engine bay would be best dry power is the normal stuff for engine systems but would kill the plant
if its running when set off

Co2 is very good in a engine bay as its the best replacement for halon
e power (LEB)have replaced all sub stations with C02 and its used on most
marine engine in big boats what you have to do is contain it in the engine
bay so it can cool and get the air out then its stops a fire dead

argon or argonite is all so very good

don,t go for the high pressure stuff like fm200

dan

[Nate]

I've not found anyone offering an automatic CO2 system - am I looking in the wrong place? Alternatively is it possible to make a CO2 system - large bottle of gas and thermostatic expansion valve??