Awful broker! - are there really RYA and BMF rules of sale?

[tony t]

Originally Posted by kerny

Seconded

If it makes you

[Searider]

"I agree, I wouldn't want to pay money for a good hull and engine only for it to handle like a rice pudding"

In which case you'd have good grounds to pull out of the sale and have your deposit returned.

[Chris Caton]

hp, i'm with you on this one, there are plenty of good ribs out there, if you don't get the right vibes let your feet do the talking n jus walk away from it, lifes too short to have the hassle

[kerny]

Originally Posted by tony t

If it makes you

I'm surprised that my mate jambo has not come in on this one Tony, he is either away on hols or saving something big for you later

[tony t]

Originally Posted by kerny

I'm surprised that my mate jambo has not come in on this one Tony, he is either away on hols or saving something big for you later

Well if my little cockup keeps you and all the sweaty socks amused who gives bring it on

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by tony t

Well if my little cockup keeps you and all the sweaty socks amused who gives bring it on

I think they are called midges and there are no survivors well .. the pub usually ends up as a safe haven

[Dry Run]

Originally Posted by Searider

"I agree, I wouldn't want to pay money for a good hull and engine only for it to handle like a rice pudding"

In which case you'd have good grounds to pull out of the sale and have your deposit returned.

Then Searider you should definitely buy your next rib from a reputable broker. If we are any good as brokers, then we should know our products and be able to advise customers. If someone is looking at their first rib it is particularly important to guide them through what they ought to consider, so they don't end up expecting comfort and durability from a "rice pudding".

Conducting a sea trial before someone is interested enough to at least place a "returnable" deposit has happened (one has to be flexible), but is not the norm. If we were selling your boat for you and you knew that anyone could turn up and request a go in your boat without making any commitment to move the sales process forward - would you be happy? I wouldn't!

Finally, brokers should make their customers (both sellers and purchasers) feel confident and that is greatly helped by having a fair and well understood sales process. Making it up as you go along leaves people feeling like HP did in the OP.

Regards

Steve

[Searider]

Hi Steve

I agree - I was quoting another poster above my comment.

Buying a boat is such a personal process you have to be able to get on with the broker or vendor.

As a surveyor I've been involved with several sales that didn't proceed because the boats didn't perform or handled very strangely. One where it chime walked above 16 knots (33 foot flybridge cruiser) and another where the owner had claimed it would do 40 knots and it struggled to make 35.

In the first case the boat was just a bit odd and the broker couldn't have known about the poor handling in the second the vendor was a bit economic with his information.

Would be better for the Broker to know the answers before the expense of survey, launch and sea trial!

Plenty of good brokers out there - and they always attract the best boats from the best sellers too.

Duncan

[gohelm]

Duncan - Steve - others,

agree !! my view ( I am a shipbroker/freightbroker and not a yachtbroker, so this may work differently ) :

What a good broker does is 'adding value' to the (potential) deal and facilitating his customer(-s). In the modern world of electronics / internet, it is fairly easy to find out who is behind any brokers' offering, so protecting your source/contacts as a broker is pointless.
Adding value is done by adding effort, experience and time and suprisingly there are some @#$ out there! With regards to the 'going behind somebodies back' ethical issues i think a fair effort is worth a fair commission. If there is no effort, what is the point.......

Due to the present economical situation, I think it is a matter of time that the lazy farts (have encountered a few as well yes) will disappear to some extend; the market itself is a good filter in that respect. It is a shame that bad experiences put such a stamp on the profession, there are for sure a few good ones i think??

best regards,
Gabor

Originally Posted by Searider

Hi Steve

I agree - I was quoting another poster above my comment.

Buying a boat is such a personal process you have to be able to get on with the broker or vendor.

As a surveyor I've been involved with several sales that didn't proceed because the boats didn't perform or handled very strangely. One where it chime walked above 16 knots (33 foot flybridge cruiser) and another where the owner had claimed it would do 40 knots and it struggled to make 35.

In the first case the boat was just a bit odd and the broker couldn't have known about the poor handling in the second the vendor was a bit economic with his information.

Would be better for the Broker to know the answers before the expense of survey, launch and sea trial!

Plenty of good brokers out there - and they always attract the best boats from the best sellers too.

Duncan

[Rum Runner]

Jono I would ask you don't send this person the owners details as I don't want him bothered by this character. Given we sold the owners 170k boat last year I would say he would trust our views.

[Rum Runner]

Duncan as brokers we have not tried and tested every boat. How is all concerned knowledge of sailing boats for instance?, we have to know about every boat inside, not possible.
My knowledge is quite variable, and I do not pretend to be a RIB expert though they were my daily mode of transport when I ran large charter yachts and as a RYA instructor but as said I am not expert.
I was also a mechanic and involved in vehicle paint re finishing many years ago which also helps in this industry, this was before running boats for owners for 20 years sail and power, so I did not just sail into port fresh yesterday.

There will always be a bad rappor with somebody at some point as it the law of averages. We have sold around 140 in the last 12 months and are Boatshed Broker of the year so we must be doing something right.

[HUMBER P4VWL]

Best of luck to you, as you have now named yourself. I posted generically re sales rules etc

As you say, not everyone can get on in life and much of it is opinion. High sales don't reflect reputation or quality though!

I was annoyed as you can't deny that having no keys with 2 days warning and a follow up text the night before to confirm is poor.

And you can't deny that quoting the RYA and BMF prescribe your preferred rules of sale is a rather grey claim.

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by Rum Runner

Given we sold the owners 170k boat last year I would say he would trust our views.

Like £170k is a big number or more significant (or important for that matter) than helping an honest punter to know what hes buying

I sell stuff .. quite big stuff actually. We operate in a different world where there is no snobbery/rules like this

[just another toy]

I have sold two of my boats through this company, and my current boat was from them. I really couldnt fault them!

you say is doesnt reputaion but i think it does as they have so many offices accross the place?

[Bigmuz7]

Lookout admins first post, new registrant

[jambo]

Originally Posted by kerny

I'm surprised that my mate jambo has not come in on this one Tony, he is either away on hols or saving something big for you later

Greetings Steve mate from the West of Scotland training camp. I am up ensuring that all the anti BS training is going to plan. I can report that all the midge and cleg squadrons and all the armies of tics are all in a state of readiness to ensure all 'Babygrow' wearers will endure absolute hell in August. Bring it on Babygrow Squad.........ha ha ha

Sent from my iPhone using Rib.net

[Rum Runner]

Ah sounds very interesting. There are, of course, always two sides to the story. As the broker concerned from BOATSHED NORTH WALES, I told this person on the phone prior to him travelling that the boat was in fair condition but not mint or as new. On our website there are around 30 pictures of the boat giving a clear indication of what the boat is like. To be honest the boat looked better on the day than it did in the pictures given that the previous week it had just been valetted, new fuel lines, fuel water separator filter and the bottom edge of the skeg had been re-painted due to normal wear and tear. For those of you who care to view, the pics on the net are without the paint.

The price was also discussed and I advised there would only be a small amount of flexibility. The owner sets the price and knows what they will or won't accept - we only advise. All this was clear before they travelled. There was no mention that he would like to run the engine at the time of viewing. Had we known, we would have needed to organise this in advance as the boat would have needed to be moved which would have needed to be cleared with the owner. Also, as anyone involved in the business will know, this is standard practice. If we fired up the engine and didn't know the owner was in the middle of doing some work, imagine the consequences.

In this case, there was little point in running up the engine as it would have held little merit seeing that they were pulling the boat apart already. One of the issues raised was about the transom. I am not a yacht surveyor but I am qualified in boat design and engineering and it would seem to me that the transom was original factory finish. Given the knowledge that the buyer’s friend seemed to possess I would have thought he would already have had this information to hand.

In fairness, there was an issue with the keys as the boat had recently been brought around to our display area and the keys not dropped off with the boat by the owner. For this I apologised. Given also this was a Bank Holiday weekend, those in the industry will also understand this is quite a pressure point.

The sales process was pointed out to them. It is intended to protect both the purchaser and the vendor. As other users have pointed out, it is standard practice to agree the price with the owner, which is subject to either/and engine report/survey/sea trial or other condition to be stipulated. Once a deposit has been paid, these works can be commissioned by the purchaser. We are always happy to be helpful and suggest local engineers, surveyors, etc who can help. But this is a totally independent process and is up to the purchaser. I suggested three - I said that of them one was probably the best because he's the Mercury dealer and has the diagnostic plug in to give a full history download of the engine operations. Somebody of such expertise, as he was suggesting to his friend, would have been fully aware of the buying process although he chose to argue this point. He should also have known that any trailer, once dipped in the sea, will need its bearings checking if it has been standing for any period. This was also mentioned.

Most used boats come with only a small amount of history and we generally rely on information from the current owner. This can be variable and is just how the marine industry is. I would like to know how many transactions the OP has been involved with given his great knowledge of the subject. I also found it strange and rude when introduced to a new RIB supplier, as the Humber was not to his liking, he instantly dissed the owner/dealer's brand of RIBS to his face, although he seemed unfamiliar with the model range.

Sometimes we do have experts who come with buyers who like to impress their friends. That is fine. It is important that the purchaser is thoroughly satisfied with the boat they are buying. However, when it comes to making sure the vendor and purchaser's interests are looked after we act ethically and honestly and if I don't know the answer, which is sometimes the case given that we sell such a huge range of boats, from RIBS to large sailing boats, to motor cruisers and everything in between, I will tell you. We are not specialist RIB dealers and don't profess to be and defer to the knowledge of those that are experts. This is why I took them to see the Mercury and a RIB main dealer and present at the time, was one of the guys who worked for the company who fitted the boat out when new. You do your best, but sometimes this isn’t good enough.

[mick]

Some strange 1st posts tonight the bilges beckon

[willk]

Originally Posted by just another toy

you say is doesnt reputaion but i think it does as they have so many offices accross the place?

If you're saying what I THINK you're saying, then I'll just say that it's possible to sell crap and have a lot of offices - for a while, anyway.

I'll just pop back to me caravan then

[Boats&Outboards]

"the price was set"

I remember HP saying he'd walk away regardless if he didn't get at least 2k off a used boat circa 10k. So is that why you walked ?

Peter @ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ askboatsandoutboards4sale@sky.com ~ 07930 421007