B&&&ger

[BruceB]

Had a call from the Humber factory on my hull today, delayed!
I wouldn't mind so much as I am not particular hurry to pick it up as I am really busy till the end of the month but am particularly peed off on the explanation.
The original delivery date was 10 march but I allowed till 20 march before organising pickup, turns out the hull came out the mould today (12th) and there is a problem so it won't be ready. Slightly peed off as it couldn't be explained that if the boat was on schedule the hull was moulded two days after the planned completion date. My advised collection date had obviously became the new completion date and thr problem has scuppered that!
Not a happy chap as I will lose two rooms booked and paid for and I had arranged cover etc for work to go, I wouldn't even have minded as much but I did say I could wait till April because of the hassles involved in planning ahead for pickup due to distance and was assured it would be ready on the 10th, then added another week and a half for good measure.
Again I wouldn't mind but they did the same to me 5 years ago buying my last one.

[Roy Smith]

we all tend to forget that this rib thing is a cottage industry,
as any body had a new boat delivered on the day it was promised

[Colin F]

Originally Posted by Roy Smith

we all tend to forget that this rib thing is a cottage industry,
as any body had a new boat delivered on the day it was promised

My humber 5.5 was early from PBS , my thunderbolt was on time from Ceasar , my Ribcraft was months late !!!!

Some of these cottages are getting big now

[BassBoy]

You must be kidding! Have you been to Yeovil revently!

[K&S]

Hi, our boat was on time and during a busy period (LBS) only delay was one hour for the prop to arrive from Suzuki. Not a major hassle as by the time we looked over the boat, signed paperwork and had a coffee etc it was unpacked fitted and boat out for us to inspect the motor running.

At the price of a new boat i would expect it to be on time without a doubt!
As a gesture of good will i would have expected my accomodation to be covered by supplier.

Best of Luck and hope it all works out for you Bruce

[BruceB]

I think the thing that is annoying me the most is that after being told a couple of weeks ago that all was on schedule for the hull being finished on the 10th and informing them that I was picking up on the 20th, is that they have so obviously just moved the completeion date to the 20th with this result.
The reason I picked the 20th is so that any niggles could be sorted between the planned completion date and the pick up date despite being told all along till today that all was OK in the schedule.
Yeah, right. That why they were only taking the hull from the mould two days after "the schedule" stated it should be finished!
As I said, there is no rush to pick up but I need to know in advance as it is a three day return trip to pick up the hull and the trailer and such like are now sitting waiting as well at De Graaf.
Humber is not exactly a "cottage" industry and should know better. it isn't even as if they are putting the boat together, it is simply a hull and console moulding supplied loose.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by K&S

At the price of a new boat i would expect it to be on time without a doubt!
As a gesture of good will i would have expected my accomodation to be covered by supplier.

Unforunately its like buying a newbuild house, by the time they deliver late you have already made the buying descision and are quite unlikely to walk away over a "short" delay (you aren't going to find an alternative in the meantime), on top of which they probably have a deposit from you (which won't be refunded just because they are late). And if the worst does happen and you do walk away they are not going to be too bothered as there are plenty of other people who will quite happily buy it.

I am not sugesting that they are consciously poor at customer service - its just that they don't need to be particularly good at it.

In Bruce's case he sounds like he trying to get the boat as cheeply as possible (no criticism there) but when Humber do get a resource planning/production problem its only natural that the customer who is buying the boat, engine, trailer etc package from them and where they are making a bigger profit (and a much more bespoke boat may be harder to pass on to another customer if he walks away) gets priority.

[K&S]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Unforunately its like buying a newbuild house,

I am not sugesting that they are consciously poor at customer service - its just that they don't need to be particularly good at it.

Polwart i agree to a certain extent however, with so many other manufacturers and newer designs there is bound to be increased competition.

For a long established manufacturer selling an, dare i say it, older design of hull, the level of service should be exceptionally high IMO.

The experience that Bruce has had is, in my opinion, unacceptable no matter how you 'dress it up.'

Sure its too late in the deal for Bruce to apply any leaverage to speed the process up and as i suspect many have to 'grin and bear it'.

Future buyers will be enlightened by Bruce's experience and are better educated than ever before so they have damaged their reputation. How long can a company go on in such a manner .....

Guess why we went for an xs ... a company trying to establish a good reputation with a newer product pretty much ensured good service.

My brother inlaw (like i would have been 5 or 10 years ago) was sold on getting a humber but he to is now looking at other manufacturers.

[BruceB]

It may seem odd but the delay for the sake of it is unimportant, in fact I did suggest that delivery in April would actually be better for my personally but was told production schedules meant it would be ready 10th march and I had to pick up within two weeks or be charged rental. My pickup date was then planned and accepted by Humber as two weeks after the planned completion date. unfortunately they have obviously decided to change the completion date to the date I was picking up to allow for problems, then had a problem!
Cheapness isn't really the main driver here, I bought a brand new motor because I could buy it much cheaper and set it up myself, specified lots of parts that I am paying to be fitted to be supplied unfitted so I can set up as I wish and bought a de Graaff trailer instead of a Bramber as I think Brambers are rubbish and overpriced.
My gripe really is that I did say I couldn't just turn up when they said it was ready and needed some warning and was still getting letters up to two days ago saying all was well.
This hull is costing 8 thousand pounds, it ain't cheap by any means.
I now have two nights accomodation that can't be refunded due to the late hour of cancellation, a week off with cover from alsorts arranged due to the time of year and all sorts of other arrangements made to go down on Tuesday to collect with Humber now telling me that this isn't there fault despite assuring me up till two days ago all was well.

[Colin F]

I think generally speaking, the levels of customer service in the retail side of the marine industry are appaling.

I have had bad service from rib manufacturers and a heap of online chandlers. The biggest let down of all of them is time, only 3 weeks ago i ordered some new jackets and trousers and was told delivery was within 3 days of ordering. 5 days later i emailed to ask where my stuff was to be told that it hadn't been dispatched. No apology was even offered. My business will go elsewhere now. I get better service from ebay sellers!!!!

I won't go into the list of issues with Ribcraft as I am bored to tears of it all, but for the money i spent, I couldn't believe the lack of aftersales care and still find it astounding to this day.

I have now bought a new Humber from ian sharlott and jono garton who are on here (PPS). They have done everything they can to get my order correct, it was delivered early and exactly to specification. They were helpful beyond what I expected for a boat half the cost of my ribcraft and i recieved in excess of twice the service. It is a real shame that for a boat as well designed and built that this side of the business lets it all down. As company's grow, they lose sight of what made them successful in the earlier days when they did value each and every customer.

The rest of the industry need to wake up to the fact that customer service does matter, customers will walk away from companies who treat them like cr@p and their business will suffer in the long term.

I am sure like there are company's whose customer service is poor, there are some that are good. I know where my money is going in future.

Off my soapbox now and well done ian and jono!!

[Nasher]

Apart from the feel good factor of owning something nobody else has had the chance to play with, what does everybody think are the advantages of buying brand new?
Warranty is one I suppose.

I've never been in a position to own either brand new, but feel I get a lot more boat or car for my money when buying used. Even with a little added to the budget to make some changes.

Obviously somebody has to buy new in the first place to feed the used market.

Don't want to upset anyone, but don't understand why if one had a budget of say £20 or 25K, you'd buy a new 5M RIB when a 2 or 3 year old 6.5M could be yours for the same money. I'd rather have the bigger boat.

And if you want the smaller boat, then why spend the money.

I feel even stronger about buying a new car, and taking a big hit on depreciation, when 1 year old ex-company vehicles are such good value for money.

Plus of course in most cases you walk in the Boatyard/showroom and could drive it away if you have the cash already arranged

As mentioned, don't want to upset, just interested in others views on the subject.

Nasher.

[willk]

Nasher..

Too late, you've upset me. You're absolutely correct - someone has to take a hit on new kit, otherwise there will be no bargains to be had. Shush! I would have had to save for six years to buy my boat if new!

Still with the Shush already!

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by Nasher

Apart from the feel good factor of owning something nobody else has had the chance to play with, what does everybody think are the advantages of buying brand new?
Warranty is one I suppose.

I've never been in a position to own either brand new, but feel I get a lot more boat or car for my money when buying used. Even with a little added to the budget to make some changes.

Obviously somebody has to buy new in the first place to feed the used market.

Don't want to upset anyone, but don't understand why if one had a budget of say £20 or 25K, you'd buy a new 5M RIB when a 2 or 3 year old 6.5M could be yours for the same money. I'd rather have the bigger boat.

And if you want the smaller boat, then why spend the money.

I feel even stronger about buying a new car, and taking a big hit on depreciation, when 1 year old ex-company vehicles are such good value for money.

Plus of course in most cases you walk in the Boatyard/showroom and could drive it away if you have the cash already arranged

As mentioned, don't want to upset, just interested in others views on the subject.

Nasher.

Well when it comes to cars, I'll never buy new... You might as well take the money out of your pocket and set fire to it if you do.

Top end motors with all the gadgets loose soooo much, and after a few thousand miles you can pick up some top marques with many... many thousands off list - its insane .. and they are only just run in if that !

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Nasher

don't understand why if one had a budget of say £20 or 25K, you'd buy a new 5M RIB when a 2 or 3 year old 6.5M could be yours for the same money. I'd rather have the bigger boat.

And if you want the smaller boat, then why spend the money.

That assumes there are plenty of peole buying the type of boat, engine combination you are interested in with the seat layout etc. and then selling them on in good nick; otherwise you have to wait till you find something the "one" or compromise on something that suits.

In general I would agree with you but I bought smaller and new (not in this league though!) as anything in my budget that was new seemed to be pretty trashed and having spent more time fixing my previous wooden boat than sailing it I wanted to get free of the maintainece crap.

[BruceB]

I have never and never will buy a car less than three years old. The difference between a car and a RIB though is, while cars of just about any shape or size are available off the shelf so to speak, this is not true on RIBs. I would only buy a new boat as I have specific ideas on how I want it built and laid out and it is extrmely unlikely anyone else would have the same ideas! Remeber you can walk into most car dealerships and specify car type, colour, engine equipment level etc etc and they can ship that exact car up and you can have it next week!
I have purchased two new RIBs and both have been bought as bare hulls where I have fitted them out from motor to console myself. This way I get exactly what I want and know the workmanship and have chosen every screw and gadget personally. It helps that I am an engineer or sorts to trade so can do it quite easily.
It also is quite satisfying but with the extra parts and better quality components it really doesn't work out any cheaper than having it done for you.
Personal choice really but I didn't regret it with the last one and won't probably with this one, when i get it!
I think I could easily get a 6.5m rib for the cash you are talking about though, my 5.8 with new trailer, motor and lots of bits right up to a 4 speaker stereo CD player will still cost less than £18K and thats skimping on nothing and including bits like a 7" colour plotter, hydraulic steering and Icom VHF!

[Colin F]

Originally Posted by Nasher

Apart from the feel good factor of owning something nobody else has had the chance to play with, what does everybody think are the advantages of buying brand new?
Warranty is one I suppose.

I've never been in a position to own either brand new, but feel I get a lot more boat or car for my money when buying used. Even with a little added to the budget to make some changes.

Obviously somebody has to buy new in the first place to feed the used market.

Don't want to upset anyone, but don't understand why if one had a budget of say £20 or 25K, you'd buy a new 5M RIB when a 2 or 3 year old 6.5M could be yours for the same money. I'd rather have the bigger boat.

And if you want the smaller boat, then why spend the money.

I feel even stronger about buying a new car, and taking a big hit on depreciation, when 1 year old ex-company vehicles are such good value for money.

Plus of course in most cases you walk in the Boatyard/showroom and could drive it away if you have the cash already arranged

As mentioned, don't want to upset, just interested in others views on the subject.

Nasher.

For me, the size of what i bought was dictated by the size my car can tow, and i didn't want to change car. Due to being a wheelchair user, i require more customisation of the boat to make it useable by me. It is easier to do this on a new boat with a blank canvas.

I like the peace of mind a warranty offers, and knowing the boat and engine have not been thrashed to death or not maintained.

I'd always like to think new stuff is more reliable but it's certainly not always the case.

On both the car and boat front, there is VAT exemptions available to "disabled people" for both, dependent on meeting certain criteria (cars are straight forward - hand controls qualify on their own, boats are more complicated) which help reduce the sting of buying new and the depreciation.

However, if my circumstances were different, i'd buy 12 months old every time i think, unless i had sufficient funds that it didn't really matter.

[Nasher]

Interesting, obviously everybodys situation is different, and Colin yours is quite specific.

My lack of cash is a big issue, but my way I run a 6.5M boat and 200HP EFI for very little.

I suppose in my case I also really, really, enjoy the problem solving, design stage, and hands on re-building and modifying to suit my needs bit of buying a used boat, and would have nothing to play with if I spec'd and payed for a boat to be built exactly to my needs.
That probably plays a huge part in my take on it.

I'm also very impatient, and never believe that somebody has done a job as well as I would have done, and hence will not be satisfied with, or pay somebody to do a job I know I can do myself.

I can understand the new hull-self fit out concept, and would probably do it that way myself with the proverbial lottery win.
That way you get the enjoyment of the build, the spec you want, and the benifit of working with new, clean, materials.

Nasher.

[Colin F]

i've always liked the idea of a self fit out, but the logistics of me doing it make it impossible in reality. On a similar theme, i've always wanted to build a kit car, but the physical space to move a wheelchair round a car chassis or body mean i'd need a warehouse!! I have to pull my quad bike out the garage before i can get alongside it to get onto it.

I worked for a company who designed and made wheelchairs before moving down here, which i really enjoyed, especially spec'ing the one off's.

I now get heavily involved with any boat i buy in terms of seating, right down to the specific details so i can use it easily. If you look on the stolen thread (and dont get me started on that!!) you'll see my custom front seats which i specc'd and ian/jono got made for me.

[codprawn]

Couldn't agree more Nasher. Especially with cars let some other mug pay for the depreciation. It's different if it's on lease - then the cars that depreciate the least are the best bargains.

An Audi A8 is a classic example - a great car but anyone who buys one new would have to have their heads examined. From £65,000 to about £20,000 in 3 years!!! New it's a crap buy - 2nd hand it's prob the most car you will get for your money.

It's pretty much the same with boats. A Princess V45 will set you back about £320,000 - the same money will get you an older Sunseeker Predator 63 with engines that have only done about 200 hrs.

As regards newer is better for reliability I am not so sure any more. Most new things have a few teething troubles - there are so many systems on boats it's often the case that all the faults will have been ironed out in time for the next owner!!!

I see many people these days buying brand new sailing boats from people like Jeannau and Bavaria etc. For the same money I would much rather an older classic that has proved itself around the world and is of far more robust construction.

I would also love to do my own fit out - i was thinking of building an Ultima but it looks like the Murphy Moose will win the day!!!

[Nasher]

Colin

Yes, sorry to hear about about the loss of the engines, especially from such a special RIB.

You have my respect for doing everything you do in circumstances some of us would give up in.

We should meet up for a beer when I'm down for a week in August.
I'm going to try organising a cruise, and maybe a Solent style Beer and Banter in Dartmouth for anyone who fancies turning up.

Nasher.