Beached Whale...I mean camel..

Jono · 23 August 2004, 13:18

What nobba anchors his boat off the beach with a force 7 forecast? Guess what happened overnight?...

...same bloke who lost his racing yacht thingy off the moorings in the previous weeks storm from the same place.....

Manos · 23 August 2004, 16:56

That is not very serious

Listen to this, last week a guy hired a RIB for a week. Brought it back with bow seriously chipped and scratched (it needed more than jell coat), boat flooded with sea water, anchor broken!! (he got it back to show me what a W@#$#$R he had been), ropes tangled, bilge pump burnt, water in petrol, hand held torch broken, spare batteries and hand book soaked, spare spark plugs ruined and the boat full of sand.
All this because he anchored his boat facing the beach with the anchor tied aft and a rope forward (boat's bows facing the beach). The wind changed and the boat was thrown on the beach. Damage about Euro 500.00

timw · 23 August 2004, 17:24

I've noticed people don't seem to care for their camels very much.

Last year I noticed one moored outside Seaview IOW, completely swamped and had been like that apparantly for some time. There is another moored opposite the Westminster Boating Base on the Thames which I've never seen moved in 2 years and is in a very sorry condition.

I understand they change hands for around £20k which makes me wonder why the ones I've seen are so neglected.

Jono Garton · 23 August 2004, 20:57

So this guy i belive to be a cheshire play boy, he left his cork 1720 rag and stick thingy, on someone elses mooring off abersoch and it came adrift in 50 knot winds on wednesday morning. Me and Ian jones pulled it in and claimed salvage on it. The guy who owned it offered me a pint !! i told him where he could shove his pint and asked him for the phone number of his solicitor and insurance company!!! When we got back we phoned the marina to see what wind was registered at the time - 49 knots Pretty scary towing a 8m yacht with a 6m rib in a 49 knot wind and 4m swell.

You can imagine my face when i got a phone call this morning at 8am saying his camel rib washed up on the beach!!!

Even more smiles when it was on the abersoch web cam

Cork Rib · 23 August 2004, 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono Garton

Me and Ian jones pulled it in and claimed salvage on it. The guy who owned it offered me a pint !! i told him where he could shove his pint and asked him for the phone number of his solicitor and insurance company!!!

You are all heart !! Whatever happened to looking out for one another.

Remember, you might need a helping hand sometime, and not have a bob in your pocket to give. personally, after reading your post I'd be inclined to leave you high and dry

Jon

Andy Stevens · 23 August 2004, 23:20

If someone is stupid enough to lose two boats in a week, he deserves to pay the salvage. Might teach him a lesson!

Powerboat · 24 August 2004, 00:31

To each their own I guess.....

Here at our School ( like many others I suspect) I reckon that we save 5 or 6 boats in trouble per year by virtue of the fact that we are on the water so much. Our Instructors would lend assistance to many many more. We have never ever attempted to claim salvage.

We get bought a lot of pints .. and we make lots of friends.........and we also find that the people we help tend to come to us afterwards for training and indeed send a lot of other people to us too !

Just a thought !

Mark Halliday · 24 August 2004, 08:34

It depends on the situation surely.

If you find a vessel adrift and not under command in open water - go for the salvage.
If you render assistance to a vessel under command and in difficulties - take the beer.
I have helped numerous people over the years, and been rescued once myself.
Thanks has ranged from nothing to very drunk. The former being increasingly common.

Jono · 24 August 2004, 09:00

Before this thread gets carried away with the rights and wrongs on salvage claims (and we all have our own opinions on that), I would like to add a little flesh to the bones of this story.
On the day in question, I was also in Pwllheli "enjoying" the seasonal Welsh weather for my holiday. Due to spending all my hard earned (stop sniggering at the back!) cash on my boat I couldn't afford the usual luxury of my regular B 'n B. I was camping. OK so I was in a camper van, but I was on a campsite. The night in question was indeed very windy. When dawn broke the campsite was almost completely empty. There was only a couple of tents still standing and even the caravans had been hit hard. I had taken a walk along the beach at about 05:00, looking out across the bay and remember thinking “ Feck! I’m glad I’m not out there!”
So after a well-earned breakfast I set off down to the marina to check on my boat and catch up with Jono and company.
I caught Jono having a conversation with a gentleman, I believe who either was currently or used to be a lifeboat man, discussing the recovery of this particular yacht just before it ground it’s way onto the rocks. The gist of the conversation was that when Jono saw the boat headed for the rocks he asked this chap to come out with him to recover it. Bear in mind this conversation took place when there were four active “Mayday” calls going on and outside the Pwllheli lifeboat station. The reply was along the lines of “No, you must be mad! There is no-one in trouble and I’m not risking my neck for just a boat.”
Now, at this point, I would point out, that if Jono had asked me to crew in the conditions prevailing at the time of the recovery, my reply would have been along the same lines, but shorter and more succinct!
On recovery of the yacht, Jono asked the yard owner next door, if he could contact the boat’s owner (who turned out to be a friend of the yard owner) and put them in touch. I was in Jono’s office later that morning (scrounging a coffee as usual) and heard the call that Jono put in to the boat’s owner. It went something along the lines of:
“ Give me a call back. Make me an offer for the recovery as, although I can claim salvage, I don’t want to go down that road.”
The response from the owner? Arrive with the Police, claiming that it was theft!
Now, call me old fashioned, if you will, but I don’t think that that was the best way of coming to an amicable agreement was it? That was a move guaranteed to escalate the situation and I’m pretty sure that most of us (who aren’t Saints, that is) would have taken the hump, just as Jono did.
I should also point out that Jono and his instructors have helped out many times, to my direct knowledge, with people in trouble on the water without any hesitation or reward, other than the occasional thanks.
As for the salvage claim? Well, I’m not sure I would have made a claim. That’s if I’d had the courage (stupidity?) to go out in the first place. However if the owner had behaved to me, as he did to Jono, I’m not sure I would have been restrained enough to let him walk out of my office upright……..

Just wish I’d seen the Camel on the beach first………

Jono · 24 August 2004, 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Halliday

It depends on the situation surely.

If you find a vessel adrift and not under command in open water - go for the salvage.
If you render assistance to a vessel under command and in difficulties - take the beer.
I have helped numerous people over the years, and been rescued once myself.
Thanks has ranged from nothing to very drunk. The former being increasingly common.

Yup! I'd agree with that...

.. but I felt so sorry for the owners of the tender that I found adrift, that I just handed it back with a couple of sarcastic comments about knot tying.. I must be getting soft in my old age...

Jono Garton · 24 August 2004, 09:06

Mark - totall agree

Stuart, we to pull in several boats every week, however i don't normally go out in 49knot winds to do so, we would normally leave this to the rnli. however they refused to go out as there was no life at risk and conditions were so bad. The boat would have broken up on the rocks in another 20 minutes, so time was the issue. The way i look at it - the insurance company would have to pay up £25000 to the owner if it had broken up, however they now only have to pay me and ian jones50% / £12500 so we have saved the insurance company £12500.

Who would go out in a 49knot wind, in a 6m rib, to tow a 8m yacht with no life at risk for a beer?

Alan · 24 August 2004, 09:09

Jono,

Do you think you were putting your (& your crew) at risk in going out in those conditions?

Mark Halliday · 24 August 2004, 09:55

Jono G

After reading t'other Jono's post, I would wait for it to blow up a bit (this evening looks good) and put it back where you found it.

It makes you wonder why you bother to help in situations like this, don't it.

Jono Garton · 24 August 2004, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan

Jono,

Do you think you were putting your (& your crew) at risk in going out in those conditions?

I was thinking of going out for a play anyway. And for the crew, Ian Jones, it was his decision. I trust him as much as i trust myself.

It was a bit touch and go at times as the yacht was constantly surfing and pulling the stern of the rib side on to the wave, we had one end of the line ready to be sliped.

The hardest job was actually getting along side the boat, it was moving at 5knots across the waves. Every time we came down wind of it the yacht it was picked up and moved towards us, every time we cam upwind of the yacht we were in danger of being washed on top of it. After several atemps we finally came on to the bow (nose of the yacht to midship of the rib) this was hard because the boat was moving at 5 knots towards us. Ian quickly threaded the line through the bow eye and we started to tow with a 30m line. It would of been a lot easier if we had 1 extra crew to steer the yacht.

When we got the boat in the harbour we shortened the tow and paid for the yacht to be lifted to ensure no damage.

Nick Hearne · 24 August 2004, 12:10

Top job, make him pay the arrogant swine!
Wasting police time as well!
Which Rib where you in?
Nick

Manos · 24 August 2004, 13:12

Tugs are called the crows of the sea. However, in many cases they not only save ships but people too.

So if one has money tied up on boats and makes a living out of the sea one should charge for the services that offers.
Jono you've done well

Richard B · 24 August 2004, 22:50

Jono, I have a couple of questions for you:

1. Based on the following, did you offer to assist with the "mayday" calls or just limit your excursion to dealing with the unmanned boat?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

when Jono saw the boat headed for the rocks...this conversation took place when there were four active “Mayday” calls going on and outside the Pwllheli lifeboat station

2. To get it all into context, what offer are you looking for to avoid going down the road to salvage?

Jono · 25 August 2004, 08:07

Richard,

It was I (This Jono over here!) who knew that the Mayday calls were going down, because I was earwigging on channel 16 whilst checking my boat prior to going to see Jono (That one over there!). The (equally nosey) yachty in the berth next to me told me what was going down.....and I'm fairly confident none of them were involving "local" waters as Pwllheli boat was still in the station as I recall.... bit tricky to offer help "long distance", but I'm sure you weren't trying to imply anything in your post.

Just thought I'd make that clear in case it wasn't in my original post...

Jono Garton · 25 August 2004, 08:19

The 3 maydays were on caenarfon bar about 60 n miles by sea. The yacht we pulled in was not under command and simply had not been tied up in the correct way.

Any reasnable offer would of acceptable, but not a pint? My solicitor has advised me that we should get between 25% and 50% of the boats value off the insurer. I am told insurers are normally willing to play ball in this situation as i have an rnli mechanic and 2nd coxwain for witnesses that it would of broke up, if not rescued.

Louise · 25 August 2004, 08:23

Look at it from the point of view of a relative of RNLI personnel. Was it fair/right for you to go out in such conditions to 'rescue' a boat which the RNLI had decided not to rescue as no human lives were at risk and conditions were so bad? What if (God forbid) you had got into difficulties and needed RNLI assistance? Is it fair that others (lifeboat crew) would put their lives at risk because you decided to chance your arm to make some (quite a lot!) extra cash? Just wondered what everyone thought?

Edit: Just thought - maybe he wasn't best pleased with you 'cos he deliberately tied it up badly as he was going for an insurance job?