Bill on Harbour Authorities Power

[nik]

Like it or lump it, Cowes now has it.
From the CHC newsletter:

New General Directions for Cowes

The new Cowes Harbour Revision Order 2012 (HRO) will come into force on 7 January 2013. This important statute modernises and improves the legislative powers vested in Cowes Harbour Commission to run an efficient and safe harbour.



The most important provision in the HRO is to empower CHC to issue General Directions to promote "conditions conducive to the ease, convenience or safety of navigation, the safety of persons and the protection of property, flora and fauna of the harbour". These General Directions will be the new local harbour legislation which the Commissioners propose will replace the old Byelaws that are no longer entirely fit for purpose.



The statutory consultation process

In early January 2013 the draft General Directions, which have already been subject to extensive informal consultation with bodies such as the Cowes Harbour Advisory Committee (CHAC), the RYA, local sailing schools, yacht clubs and fishermen, will be passed to "statutory consultees" for formal review and agreement.



Have your say on the draft General Directions

Ideally, harbour users should be able to channel any comments on the draft General Directions through their representative on the CHAC. However, if this is not possible then submissions to CHC can be made in writing, copy to CHAC as the statutory consultee, before 18 February 2013. Letters may be sent to the Harbour Office, Town Quay, Cowes, Isle of Wight PO31 7AS, and emails to: chc@cowes.co.uk, copy to chac@cowes.co.uk.



Timeline

CHC's aim is to introduce the new General Directions on 1 April 2013.



What major changes will the new regulations bring?

One significant change is to the general speed limit in the harbour from 6 knots over the ground to 6 knots through the water. The change will improve safety and prevent damage. Furthermore, it is proposed to reduce the speed limit south of the commercial wharves at Kingston to 4 knots. The other major proposed change affecting yachtsmen will be to give the Chain Ferry general priority over other vessels.



Further information

The new HRO, draft General Directions, and supporting information, including Questions & Answers, are available on the CHC website, or, they can be made available at the Harbour Office.



Read the full story on COWES.co.uk.

[ShinyShoe]

Originally Posted by nik

Like it or lump it, Cowes now has it.

Originally Posted by nik

The new Cowes Harbour Revision Order 2012 (HRO) will come into force on 7 January 2013.

Have I missed Christmas?

Now can someone tell me how you measure speed through the water reliably?

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

Have I missed Christmas?

Now can someone tell me how you measure speed through the water reliably?

Good question, tides and stream will surely have an affect also.

[Nos4r2]

Effectively then if you have a 4 knot tide south of Kingston it's only legal to sit still

[ShinyShoe]

Against the tide - sit still. With the tide go at 8kts SOG and you'll only be doing 4kts through the water ?

[nik]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

Have I missed Christmas?

Now can someone tell me how you measure speed through the water reliably?

I think the general idea is to reduce wash, which is observable.
Also remember your primary objective is to stay out of danger, so if your lack of way through the water is putting you in a hazardous position, then I guess its ok to increase your speed a bit.
Thats my take on it anyway.

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by nik

I think the general idea is to reduce wash, which is observable.
Also remember your primary objective is to stay out of danger, so if your lack of way through the water is putting you in a hazardous position, then I guess its ok to increase your speed a bit.
Thats my take on it anyway.

I would also like to think that, but I can think back to Cowes Week about 3-4 years ago, Northerly force 7 straight up The Medina and I was tasked out to get a person off a tall ship at Lepe in shelter. I left the river and had to increase to about 12 knots to keep safe with waves on the bow. A police launch gave me a ticking off! If I had slowed I would have taken a wave over the bow

[lakelandterrier]

Does the chain ferry not have right of way over other craft then?
I thought any vessel whose manoeverabilty was constrained (ball over diamond over ball) had right of way.

No-one sensible would want to argue or get to close to a chain ferry in any case fro the obvious reasons.

When they put the new Higher Ferry on the DArt, the extra distance you need to keep as the hawsers are so much higher than with the old one - and the ferry's much quicker - is amazing.

I too would love to know how anyone can accuately measure the "speed over water" as opposed to speed over the ground.

[Dhf]

Originally Posted by lakelandterrier

Does the chain ferry not have right of way over other craft then?
I thought any vessel whose manoeverabilty was constrained (ball over diamond over ball) had right of way.

No-one sensible would want to argue or get to close to a chain ferry in any case fro the obvious reasons.

When they put the new Higher Ferry on the DArt, the extra distance you need to keep as the hawsers are so much higher than with the old one - and the ferry's much quicker - is amazing.

I too would love to know how anyone can accuately measure the "speed over water" as opposed to speed over the ground.

Thats right speed over water is completely irrelevant, SOG is what counts as relivant, as mentioned when pushing a strong current the readings are completetly different, and the COLREG's would certainly agree that vessels with restricted maneuverability should be given right of way. All carefully coordinated by the Harbour Master whilst in port of course.

[Ribochet]

Originally Posted by lakelandterrier

Does the chain ferry not have right of way over other craft then?
I thought any vessel whose manoeverabilty was constrained (ball over diamond over ball) had right of way.

No-one sensible would want to argue or get to close to a chain ferry in any case fro the obvious reasons.

It is a little known fact that Rule 1 (b) of the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea allows for Local Harbour Authorities to introduce their own special rules (bye-laws) and an example of this is that the Poole Chain Ferry has right of way over all other vessels, except those under compulsory pilotage. Where as its counterpart in Cowes has to give way to all vessels.

Extract from Cowes Harbour Bylaws (1972) as amended

a. The Chain Ferry shall give way to vessels navigating in the harbour, whether proceeding in a northerly or southerly direction.
The Chain Ferry shall, by day and by night, when proceeding from one bank to the other, exhibit at the fore end, a flashing white light, so positioned as to be visible all round. For the purpose of this byelaw, the fore end of the Ferry means the end nearest the side of the River Medina to which the Chain Ferry is proceeding.
c. During fog or any other condition similarly restricting visibility, the Chain Ferry shall sound, when proceeding from one bank to the other, two prolonged blasts on a whistle or a portable fog horn, at intervals of not more than one minute.

[CJL]

Originally Posted by nik

I think the general idea is to reduce wash, which is observable.

So its subjective and can be applied inconsistently by our Harbour Master?

Chris

[lakelandterrier]

Originally Posted by Ribochet

It is a little known fact that Rule 1 (b) of the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea allows for Local Harbour Authorities to introduce their own special rules (bye-laws) and an example of this is that the Poole Chain Ferry has right of way over all other vessels, except those under compulsory pilotage. Where as its counterpart in Cowes has to give way to all vessels.

Extract from Cowes Harbour Bylaws (1972) as amended

a. The Chain Ferry shall give way to vessels navigating in the harbour, whether proceeding in a northerly or southerly direction.
The Chain Ferry shall, by day and by night, when proceeding from one bank to the other, exhibit at the fore end, a flashing white light, so positioned as to be visible all round. For the purpose of this byelaw, the fore end of the Ferry means the end nearest the side of the River Medina to which the Chain Ferry is proceeding.
c. During fog or any other condition similarly restricting visibility, the Chain Ferry shall sound, when proceeding from one bank to the other, two prolonged blasts on a whistle or a portable fog horn, at intervals of not more than one minute.

Well I didn't know that!

For some reason the new Higher Ferry on the Dart was originally equipped with orange rotating beacons at either end - in my book that made it a hovercraft!

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by lakelandterrier

Well I didn't know that!

For some reason the new Higher Ferry on the Dart was originally equipped with orange rotating beacons at either end - in my book that made it a hovercraft!

Is that a hovercraft in non-displacment mode ....or a nuclear sub running on the surface ? ( dont know why that sticks in my mind from reading the col regs book ...)

Poole chain ferry has them, but I dont hink / recall them being orange.

Sorry pointless thread drift...

[nik]

Originally Posted by Ribochet

It is a little known fact that Rule 1 (b) of the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea allows for Local Harbour Authorities to introduce their own special rules (bye-laws) and an example of this is that the Poole Chain Ferry has right of way over all other vessels, except those under compulsory pilotage. Where as its counterpart in Cowes has to give way to all vessels.

Extract from Cowes Harbour Bylaws (1972) as amended

a. The Chain Ferry shall give way to vessels navigating in the harbour, whether proceeding in a northerly or southerly direction.

I don't know for certain, but I suspect the reason for the change is that during busy periods its impossible to find clear space for the ferry to cross.

And some boat owners, once they know their rights, seem insistent on enforcing them.

The ferry does around a 150 crossings a day, so you can imagine the cumulative effect of being held up for a minute or so each time.

[lakelandterrier]

That's not a prblem on the Dart .....all ferries have right of way....interfere at your peril! I hsve no idea how many crossings they make... 0630-2245 non stop -simultaneous loading c. 15 min per cycle c. 70- crossings per day???. Ferries don't give way!!!!

[nik]

Originally Posted by lakelandterrier

Ferries don't give way!!!!

a. The Chain Ferry shall give way to vessels navigating in the harbour, whether proceeding in a northerly or southerly direction.

[biffer]

There are a couple of problems with this speed limit lark that I have already encountered. One, the race boat doesn't go that slow even against the tide, two, with very small rudders on the same boat we would have no steerage going with the tide

[nik]

Originally Posted by biffer

There are a couple of problems with this speed limit lark that I have already encountered. One, the race boat doesn't go that slow even against the tide, two, with very small rudders on the same boat we would have no steerage going with the tide

If you are going with the tide then you will create less wash.

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by nik

If you are going with the tide then you will create less wash.

I think what Biffer is trying to say is that in gear the race boat will be exceeding the speed limit and it doesn't matter which way he is going.

With both engines in gear on our race boat we run at about 6 mph+ and to go any slower we need to have one engine out of gear which limits our manoeuvrability to a certain extent.

[biffer]

Originally Posted by nik

If you are going with the tide then you will create less wash.

If I go with the tide I have to go faster than the tide because I will have no steering. As with most power boats. But when you put a thousand hp in gear it tends to move. Now the boat will do as John says 6 mph against the tide. If you go with the tide I have to do at least 12 mph to have any control over her