Boat delivery - Page 2

hard1 · 10 November 2005, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

Oh yes they are.....

What? Exempt or clear???

Jono · 10 November 2005, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard1

What? Exempt or clear???

Clear....

Maximum weight refered to if greater than 3,500 KG.. then it's "tacho-time"

Landy owners beware...

"Based upon earlier Court cases, the maximum permissible weight is calculated to be the lesser of:

The maximum permissible gross weight of the towing vehicle plus the maximum permissible gross weight of the trailer, or;

The maximum permissible towing (train) weight of the towing vehicle."

TIM · 10 November 2005, 23:56

In the EU under a B licence the GTW is not more that 5500kg ie a trailer of 3500kg and a 2000kg towing jeep etc.....over 3500kg ladened weight of any vehicale and you are into tacho land.... except in the uk where you can reclass HGVs under a car licence for some bizare reason !!!!

Hugh Jardon · 11 November 2005, 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim M

Thanks for all the replies.

It needs to go from Scotland to Norfolk. I think the cheapest way to do it's going to be to pay a fellow student to do it for me. Failing that do it my self but it's about 1000 miles round trip

hire that transit like i said and make a weekend of it with fellow students, go on a round britain pub crawl, that way you can have fri night and sat night somewhere and make an adventure of it.......just an idea

Jimbo · 11 November 2005, 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

hire that transit like i said and make a weekend of it with fellow students, go on a round britain pub crawl, that way you can have fri night and sat night somewhere and make an adventure of it.......just an idea

Who needs a transit - my car will fit at least 9 in it, and I'm well up for it!

Just have to watch out for the constabulary though - http://www.larkclass.org/forum/forum...messageID=2181 -

Jono · 11 November 2005, 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIM

In the EU under a B licence the GTW is not more that 5500kg ie a trailer of 3500kg and a 2000kg towing jeep etc.....over 3500kg ladened weight of any vehicale and you are into tacho land.... except in the uk where you can reclass HGVs under a car licence for some bizare reason !!!!

Reclassification means taking the "G" bit away in HGV (LGV). Ie they become a heavy vehicle that isn't used for carrying Goods... Large motorhomes, Horse boxes, Agri Vehicle, Show vehicle Etc... Oh and Life Boat tractor/drag units.......

This does make for some "odd" rules doesn't it?

<Edit> I've just checked the "B" bit again and in the UK "B" would not allow you to do as Tim says it's way more complicated than it needs to be.

. but in his example, since your max. weight (MAM) of trailer exceeds the unladen weight of your towing vehicle you'd need "B+E".. easy ain't it????

Tim M · 11 November 2005, 10:42

Jimbo taking your car was going to cost about £305 according to your petrol consumption figures!!

I have now found myself a delivery person. Sorted

hard1 · 11 November 2005, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

Clear....

Maximum weight refered to if greater than 3,500 KG.. then it's "tacho-time"

Landy owners beware...

"Based upon earlier Court cases, the maximum permissible weight is calculated to be the lesser of:

The maximum permissible gross weight of the towing vehicle plus the maximum permissible gross weight of the trailer, or;

The maximum permissible towing (train) weight of the towing vehicle."

Like I said, not that clear, but anyway. So I have a vehicle that weighs 1,000 kgs, a trailer that weighs 3,100 kgs, a maximum permissable towing weight (according to the vehicle manufacture) of 3,500 kgs (presume this means trailer weight?) Plus it's an exhibition trailer (which I understand is also exempt anyway)

Are we legal under the weight restrictions only?

I have actually had 3 different views on this. Make my day!

Hugh Jardon · 11 November 2005, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim M

Jimbo taking your car was going to cost about £305 according to your petrol consumption figures!!

I have now found myself a delivery person. Sorted

they arent listening.......haha, glad you got it sorted

they are busy debating the laws around towable weights that are very missleading and open to intepretation.....in my opinion

hard1 · 11 November 2005, 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

they arent listening.......haha, glad you got it sorted

they are busy debating the laws around towable weights that are very missleading and open to intepretation.....in my opinion

THEY are at it AGAIN?

I thought we got rid of THEY onto Boatmad.

Anyway, the towing thing. It's perfectly clear......right?

Actually, I'm waiting for the world's foremost expert on towing to emerge as he's bound to know the answer and can explain it very clearly I'm sure.

Tim M · 11 November 2005, 13:07

This should answer the question:

Jono · 11 November 2005, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard1

Like I said, not that clear, but anyway. So I have a vehicle that weighs 1,000 kgs, a trailer that weighs 3,100 kgs, a maximum permissable towing weight (according to the vehicle manufacture) of 3,500 kgs (presume this means trailer weight?) Plus it's an exhibition trailer (which I understand is also exempt anyway)

Are we legal under the weight restrictions only?

I have actually had 3 different views on this. Make my day!

Exhibition trailers are not exempt. High Court ruling of 2003. If it's in connection with your business.

You have a car that weighs 100OKg (unladen I assume?) and has a Max permissible trailer weight of 3,500KG ? What is it?

You need to know the Maximum Permissible Gross Weight (MAM) of the vehicle and trailer, not the unladen weight and also the Maximum Train Weight, but I would suggest you will need a tacho once you have checked this out..Sorry

Jono · 11 November 2005, 13:14

Tim,

I like the chart! When was that dated and off what agency? Slightly incorrect as far as I know on the "exemption clause" since Court ruling of 2003?

although there are a large amount of people exempt... notably Circus people and..... Lifeboat boyos....

Tim M · 11 November 2005, 13:17

Arh yes it's five years old (2000). It's from "safe and legal towing" published by the NTTA

Hugh Jardon · 11 November 2005, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by hard1

THEY are at it AGAIN?

I thought we got rid of THEY onto Boatmad.

Anyway, the towing thing. It's perfectly clear......right?

Actually, I'm waiting for the world's foremost expert on towing to emerge as he's bound to know the answer and can explain it very clearly I'm sure.

even an expert needs to do his research on google first before posting!!!!!!!!

Nothing derogatory or however you spell it to the "they" i have personally spoken with quite a few folks on the towing limits and in my view if people arnt sure and have differing views on the intepretation then it is not clear in the way it is written. Piss poor performance by the authorities in my book.

anyway shall sit and await the arrival of the god of all knowledge to pipe up

Jono · 11 November 2005, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

they arent listening.......haha, glad you got it sorted

Yes THEY are....

You'd be amazed how many people tow illegally without even knowing it.. if Tim had paid a fellow student to fetch the boat in a transit, for instance, he may have left the chap open to prosecution and penalty without even realising it. How many PB training schools use LR's for towing/launching and haven't realised they need a Tacho? Unless, of course they live on an island of less than 2,300 square miles that isn't attached to the mainland by a bridge...I kid you not!

.

Jono · 11 November 2005, 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

....and in my view if people arnt sure and have differing views on the intepretation then it is not clear in the way it is written. Piss poor performance by the authorities in my book.

:

That's why they are tested before the Courts and then the Court ruling applies and those of us with Operators Licenses have to keep a sharp eye on the creeping tide of legislation... Ignorance is no defence and all that fine stuff...

Pete7 · 11 November 2005, 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim M

Indeed; I'm going to take it down to Norfolk (home) for the winter and fit it out;

Hmm, lots of work

Tims new project

.

hard1 · 11 November 2005, 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

Exhibition trailers are not exempt. High Court ruling of 2003. If it's in connection with your business.

You have a car that weighs 100OKg (unladen I assume?) and has a Max permissible trailer weight of 3,500KG ? What is it?

You need to know the Maximum Permissible Gross Weight (MAM) of the vehicle and trailer, not the unladen weight and also the Maximum Train Weight, but I would suggest you will need a tacho once you have checked this out..Sorry

Ok, I have advice that exhib trailers are exempt and have seen this on VOSA/DVLA web site myself, but I'll go back and check. Under what cirumstances would an exhibition trailer NOT be in connection with a business?

OK so how do we discover the MAM and the MTW?

Vehicle is Bighorn (Trooper) LWB import but we will probably be using a LWB Landie in 2006. Thanks for your help. I have to say I have had so many different intepretations even from professional towing companies that it's all becoming a gasp....blur...can't (cough) breathe....(gasp) must... get.... free....(grunt)

Jono · 11 November 2005, 13:58

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/hgvpsvdrivers/tachographsanddrivershours/ecdrivers'hoursandtachographrulesforgoodsvehiclesf aq.htm#P62_4678

FAQ 4)..

b***cks.. can't get the link to work... will try again...Nope!

Go to www.vosa.gov.uk and put this into search and look for FAQ 4) then follow the links.. good luck

EC Drivers' Hours And Tachograph Rules For Goods Vehicles FAQ