Boy Airlifted To Hospital After Rigid Inflatable Boat Overturns

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Dare I mention freezer bags again???

Well, I tried them out. Thought I'd best do it on dry land first so talked to me dad through the bag. He could hear fek all for the rustling of the bag. He said I was unitelligible and he couldn't understand a thing I was saying because of the rustling and the muffled speech. I tried clingfilm too - it was equally bad.

No, I wasn't pished at the time.

[PeterM]

Having read the full report I reckon that a lot of things that were not 100% led to the ultimate problem . Isn't this called sods law ? Ie not greatly experianced helm , not ideal weather , passengers not held in greatly - no comms between boats - use of private channel , getting late / dark by the time eventual rescue came on scene.

Intersting that an unconnected ' large RIB' gave assistance - lots of credit to whoever that was - hopefully somehting we woudl all do , but never have to.

Even relatively small breaking waves can flip a resonable sized boat fro the stern.

I'm not thinking should I set up my Anchor so it drops out if I flip the boat - so it automatically deploys ?

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Blackroady

Having read the full report I reckon that a lot of things that were not 100% led to the ultimate problem . Isn't this called sods law ? Ie not greatly experianced helm , not ideal weather , passengers not held in greatly - no comms between boats - use of private channel , getting late / dark by the time eventual rescue came on scene.

Divers call this the Incident Pit. It's a good name.

Originally Posted by From someone's online blog

The incident pit is a concept I first read about in one of my mums diving magazines. At that time I realised how useful it is in describing incidents involving divers and how a lot of small things going wrong can result in a major incident.

In essence, the incident pit is something that you gradually fall into. One small thing might not initially go to plan or a relatively minor piece of equipment might break down or get left at home; when this happens you have put your first foot into the incident pit. Initially it is not a problem, but then something else goes wrong - that is another step into the pit. The challenge with the incident pit is that with each step, not only do you get closer and closer to the bottom of the pit and a serious incident, but with each step the sides of the pit get steeper and steeper. It gets more and more difficult to get out the further into the pit you go.

[PeterM]

Indeed - something I have heard reffed to as a 'failiure triangle' or 'cascade of errors' - lots of little things give rise to one big one.

PS _ I cant type - I am NOW thinking of setting up achor etc to deploy if I fip the boat ( NOT - NOT)

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by jwalker

Well, I tried them out. Thought I'd best do it on dry land first so talked to me dad through the bag. He could hear fek all for the rustling of the bag. He said I was unitelligible and he couldn't understand a thing I was saying because of the rustling and the muffled speech. I tried clingfilm too - it was equally bad.

No, I wasn't pished at the time.

well i have tried mine out and they have been fine - I suppose mobile phone mikes vary quite a bit - maybe they should carry freezer bag compatible logos.....

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Polwart

I thought you might have had something to say about the recommendations to consider 150N inflatable l/js for similar activities in the future? I think the realities of the situation are that 50N bouyancy aids still would be the preferred solution if i was running a centre for "kids" esp. if operating multiple boats together like this (reducing risk). "Tamper free", and lower cost to maintain (presumably no "formal" inspection required, no costs from inquisitive youngsters playing, no costs every time someone gets one wet getting out at the beach), permanent bouyancy so no risk it doesn't go off, and probably reduced risk of entrapment under the boat. And both before and following any dunking - better insulation. I also think its easier to get good fitting bouyancy aids for children/teenagers than lifejackets unless you go with crotch strap - and thats not going to happen (or happen effectively) with a bunch of teenagers.

Good point I missed that bit!!!

I totally agree with you. They also offer some impact resistance.

It is interesting to see that a few of them were trapped under the RIB but then managed to swim out. I wonder if that would have been so easy with a 150N jacket full of air? Of course you can always release the air but would they have had the prescence of mind to do so?

It is interesting to note that the Norwegian Fjord rafting people do not issue lifejackets but floatation/survival suits - cold being a far bigger problem.

[codprawn]

It also mentioned in the report the difficulty people had clinging to the upturned boat. Again Shaun White had thought of this and his boats were fitted with a grab rope under the tubes. A great man and probably the pioneer of RIB thrill rides.

He was often criticised for having passengers sitting on the tubes with no seats but they did have a massive grab rail in the centre of the boat. I fully agree with him.

[9D280]

Originally Posted by Blackroady

I am NOW thinking of setting up achor etc to deploy if I fip the boat

I'm going to ask the inevitable question here - how do you plan to do this without the risk of meeting it on the way past in another scenario? Or, to rephrase the Q, How would you fix it down for "normal" use and still make it "let go" when upside down?

I ask this as a genuine question and not as an attack on the idea, because I like the idea, I ask because I vividly remember many moons ago on an Avon W500 (bl**dy big SIB) with a leaky keel the 20Kg CQR was kept in a bread tray up at the bow. As it stuffed a partucularly steep wave surfing back on a huge swell, thankfully we were all lined up down the toobs because as it stuffed, the bow folded because the keel was at low pressure, the CQR was thrown backwards and sailed down the middle of the boat at about head height, just clearing the engine as it went over the transom. My anchor has been properly secured ever since!

If nothing else this is a good example of a lot of small seemingly irrelevant & unconnected things adding together to result in a disaster. Thankfully in this case it "only" became a near miss.

As a possible reason not to have an auto sdeplying anchor, having had my foot wrapped in a dinghy mainsheet during a capsise, does an "auto deploying anchor" run the risk of finding the crew member who was thrown forward as it drops?

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by 9D280

I'm going to ask the inevitable question here - how do you plan to do this without the risk of meeting it on the way past in another scenario? Or, to rephrase the Q, How would you fix it down for "normal" use and still make it "let go" when upside down?

I ask this as a genuine question and not as an attack on the idea, because I like the idea, I ask because I vividly remember many moons ago on an Avon W500 (bl**dy big SIB) with a leaky keel the 20Kg CQR was kept in a bread tray up at the bow. As it stuffed a partucularly steep wave surfing back on a huge swell, thankfully we were all lined up down the toobs because as it stuffed, the bow folded because the keel was at low pressure, the CQR was thrown backwards and sailed down the middle of the boat at about head height, just clearing the engine as it went over the transom. My anchor has been properly secured ever since!

If nothing else this is a good example of a lot of small seemingly irrelevant & unconnected things adding together to result in a disaster. Thankfully in this case it "only" became a near miss.

As a possible reason not to have an auto sdeplying anchor, having had my foot wrapped in a dinghy mainsheet during a capsise, does an "auto deploying anchor" run the risk of finding the crew member who was thrown forward as it drops?

Good point & example of what can happen if things aren't quite right. I guess you can argue you might not want the anchor to auto deply as it may anchor the boat in an area of rough water that you may otherwise drift clear of ?

I think the only way to rig it would be in some kind of locker with a secure enough cover that it wont pop off unless you have the full weight of anchor & chain on it from inside? You'd hope in a RIb you wont fold back the hull lke the SIB experiance you have had & possibly if it was really worthwhile / beneficial it would happen/ exisit already on the RNLI type RIBs / rescue boats ?

[9D280]

Agreed, if your rib folds like that you've got bigger problems than whether you stay in position or not, and as you(?) said earlier maty stop you drifting onto a rocky lee shore....

I was using it as a real life example of why anchors should be stowed properly, and how you need to fully appraise all possible outcomes of a system that could literally take someone down with them.

Another example on a slightly less extreme level - I decided not to bother about a backup battery because I can pull start my engine, I have a handheld VHF in the seat, when I finally get round to wiring in the GPS72 if the main batt fails it switches to it's internal battery.... etc etc. On a different boat with an engine that needs a battery just to keep the engine alive, I'd have a spare with all the aux charging etc that goes with it.....

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Blackroady

I guess you can argue you might not want the anchor to auto deply as it may anchor the boat in an area of rough water that you may otherwise drift clear of ?

I have a dinghy sailing book somewhere in my loft that shows what could happen if a capsized boat "self anchors" - on a rising tide (too deep for the length of chain/rope available) the boat can potentially be pulled under the water. Even without that situation manifesting itself the boat will be a lot harder to write with a "hidden" tether to the sea bed than otherwise .

Anchoring a capsized boat is really about saving the property and wouldn't be my no1 priority.

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by jwalker

Well, I tried them out. Thought I'd best do it on dry land first so talked to me dad through the bag. He could hear fek all for the rustling of the bag. He said I was unitelligible and he couldn't understand a thing I was saying because of the rustling and the muffled speech. I tried clingfilm too - it was equally bad.

No, I wasn't pished at the time.

Hehe ..

Some top research there JW I hope you varied your test equipment to include some old baked bean cans with string, as a control

[Poly]

Originally Posted by jwalker

Well, I tried them out. Thought I'd best do it on dry land first so talked to me dad through the bag. He could hear fek all for the rustling of the bag. He said I was unitelligible and he couldn't understand a thing I was saying because of the rustling and the muffled speech. I tried clingfilm too - it was equally bad.

No, I wasn't pished at the time.

Jeff - but to be fair you're no spring chicken so your dad can't exactly be in the age band where his hearing is likely to be 100%

[codprawn]

Maybe I should start a freezer bag friendly section............

The Nokia N95 works perfectly - even outdoors.

I will test my stunning new HTC Touch later.

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Jeff - but to be fair you're no spring chicken so your dad can't exactly be in the age band where his hearing is likely to be 100%

Pardon...

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by jwalker

Pardon...

Youll never get one of them

[jwalker]

Stop mumbling...

[Tim M]

Originally Posted by codprawn

probably the pioneer of RIB thrill rides.

He was often criticised for having passengers sitting on the tubes with no seats but they did have a massive grab rail in the centre of the boat. I fully agree with him.

I strongly disagree with that. IMHO, the last place you want "punters" is sitting on the tubes.

[Heart-trouble]

Why not?

[Tim M]

If you take a group of customers out for a thrill ride, you don't have a clue what their experience in boats is, how strong they are, or just about anything else about them. If they are sat on a seat in the boat and it gets a bit rough, chances are they are going to stay in the boat. If they are sat on the tube, there is a massive chance they could loose their grip on whatever they're holding onto, fall overbackwards and end up in the water. When we take people out we NEVER let them sit on the tubes.