Briton in boating charge...

[willowkis]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3637900.stm

Kim

[codprawn]

Tragic but I wonder how much to blame was he? Why do they always try to blame someone these days - people forget the word "accident".

Alright maybe he shouldn't have let so many people on board but maybe it was a case of being nagged and not wanting to let people down etc - surely ANY adult has the sense to see when a boat is overloaded???

[Brian]

The Times also reports that Mr. Sheridan "failed to produce a navigation certificate" as well.

So what's one of those then?

The boat was designed to carry 5 but had at least (my italics) 16 people on board and no lifejackets.

[David Hickman]

I guess the Times mean the ICC Brian. CE marking for 5 and had 16?? How many more accidents will it take for boaters to realise the risks???

[Manos]

Originally Posted by BBC

It was reported that at least six adults and seven children were on board the boat, which was designed to carry five.

What 'Mr' David George Sheridan did was irresponssible and only a brainless IDIOT with no regard for life of others would do such a thing. This insident is completely stupid and this guy should serve time for a VERY LONG TIME!! Killing people is not a joke.

There are NO excuses , no buts and not ifs

[codprawn]

Manos don't you think ALL the adults on that boat were just as much to blame?

Don't know the full circumstances yet - if it was commercial he deserves to be shot but it could have been a case of - come on lets all pile in!

Also need to know why he was deemed "in charge" could have been a rented boat and it was his name at the top of the paper!

[Rogue Wave]

I would rather hope he had to show his certificate of navigation before he got to rent a boat. If he did rent it and was on it then he was responsible. if he rented it without a certificate then I hope the owner of the charter company is in the dock with him

an Avon searider 4.7 metres is CE plated for 8 people so this boat must have been smaller than that. The only reason i would have sympathy for was that he resued them from a burning boat

[Manos]

Cod NO!!!


NO ONE IS TO BLAME EXCEPT THE PERSON IN CHARGE i.e THE MASTER of the ship/boat (any type of ship/boat). I suppose you are aware of this rule/law (if you care to have a look, it is also mentioned in the Carriage of Goods by Sea, Act 1969 & 1971)!!

The BBC report says that he was incharge. Therefore, he is fully resposnssible for the boat he is in charge of, her crew and her passenger. So the buck stops here!!

He should have had the brains (obviously he didn't) to think that if this boat can only carry 5 or 6 people it will sink if he put double the people on it. He should have made 2/3 trips to pick his friends or clients back. I really cannot understand how he could endagenr is such way the lives of the children and of the adluts of course!!

I HAVE NO SYMPATHY WHAT SO EVER FOR THAT MAN AND A VERY LONG JAIL CENTENCE FOR MURDER (although it will not bring the people that are lost back) WILL SERVE HIM RIGHT.

My question is how could he live with him self knowing that he murdered all these people.

[Jono]

Manos,

I sincerely hope, after your vehement attack on this character, without knowing the full circumstances, that none of the people we see on you boating pictures, without life jackets, drowns. It’s very easy to say things like "but they're all strong swimmers.. the sea is calm.." and the like, but accidents do happen. Will you be quite so vehement, when you as "captain" did not insist they wore life jackets every time?
He may well be to blame, but that's not for you to judge, that's why they have investigations and inquests that, hopefully, have access to all the facts and not just , news articles, rumours and gossip.
Jono (t'other one)

[Manos]

Jono YOU ARE OFF TOPIC!!

This thread is not about life jackets but about a man who killed a few people because he put 13 persons on a boat that was ment to carry 5-6!!!!!

For the record though if the people that hire my boats wish not wear life jackets they can. In Greece the Coast Gurad which is also a regulatory body and the police for the sea will not tell you off and although is recommended is not compulsory However, I recommend that they do. Nevertheless, if they don't, this is their choice. Master is repsonssible (Carriage of Goods By Sea, Act 1969 & 1971) for his boat, crew and pax. This is the reason I do not hire the boats out if people do not hold an ICC or equiv for less than 3 years. So that they guy/girls that hires the RIB has some sea experience.

However, if you were under 35-38 deg C heat I want to see how you would cope wearing a life jacket. You make me think of the Brits that were dying from heat exhaustion when they were in India wearing these heavy uniforms (because they had to) in 40 and 50 deg C.

BACK TO THE TOPIC, The fact remains that according to BBC report a few people got killed by someone who was repsonssible for a boat, who ignored any safety related to the boat and he should be punished. Full stop.

[Jono]

Ooo look! One of my "green blobs" has vanished. I wonder who gave me a negative feed back? How mature...

Manos,

I thought the topic was you insisting that "the captain" was responsible for the safety of his passengers? The same way that you are responsible for the safety of the passengers in your boat, in your pictures, with you on board, not wearing life jackets if anything, God forbid, should happen to them. So, no, it's not "off topic".
There are also a couple of other issues that I have with your ranting.
Firstly, I have been quite comfortable wearing my (auto type) life jacket whilst boating in the Coral Sea and the Gulf of Oman, so do not presume that I haven't experienced boating in sunny climes. I'm not quite sure how you relate your inability to stand a little discomfort to soldiers dying because of the foolhardy nature of the old Colonial army commanders.
Secondly, why are you still insisting that the chap, who has been charged, is guilty of anything yet? Has he been to trial? Were you there? Do you know the full circumstances of the case, or are you merely going on what is a copy of a news report?

[Manos]

Jono I cannot believe that you are trying to defend someone which is obvious (from the BBC report at least) that he was completely in wrong. OK I accept that an investigation will be carried out but all the facts right now show that this guy was in the wrong.

Now on the life jacket issue, we do not wear a life jacket on a boat when we are in Greece and in places that I know well (such as the Aegean Sea and the Agean Islands) except my daughter and we always make sure that she is well hydrated. In fact I never had a life jacket on since I was 12 and I'm still around

I ALWAYS WEAR A LIFE JACKET in the UK and when we sail of the reaf in the carribs or in any place that I do not know the area or the weather patterns.

Different place in Greece and different seas than the UK or the Atlantic in the Caribs. When there are no waves, seas as flat as a lake, hardly any wind, temps 35-38C and we are together with another 2-3 boats no one wears a life jacket. As a matter of fact no one wears a life jacket in Greece on any boat. Not even the Coast Guard. And this is manly that on one is mad enough to go out in gale force winds as there is nothing to prove to any one.
This how things are here. In the UK are different and IMHO people should think that way.

As I said though to non-Greeks I always recommend to wear a life jacket if they wish since they do no know the area. What they do after that is their choice. But we never put 13c people on a boat that is licenced to carry 8 (although the 640SR Facons have a CE certificate for 12 I have asked the Coast Guard to write on the licence max people onboard 8 and I always insist that people do not put more than 6 people on board at any one time)

[Jono]

Manos,
You are still missing the points I am trying to make, so perhaps I am not making myself clear enough, so I will try to be "less subtle".

In this country, and it may not be the case in Greece, we have a rather pleasant notion under law. "Innocent until proven guilty". It's an old tradition, but it works most of the time. I am not "defending" anyone here, especially as I have no direct knowledge of the case. What I am defending, or pointing out, is his right to a trial by persons who are as well informed as they can be. What I abhor is people, typified by you in this case, of "trial by media". You don't know anything about this case, other than what you've read in the papers, or on your PC, yet there you are, howling for his blood. That kind of behaviour is, quite frankly, unacceptable in a so-called civilised society.
The second point I am trying to get across, is your shear hypocrisy (a Greek word, if I'm not mistaken, so perhaps there's a clue therein), in stating that the "captain" is responsible no matter what. At the same time you allow people onto your boat without wearing life-jackets, with you in charge. You try to justify this by saying, "that's the way it is in hot countries". Would you be so vehement if one of your crew fell in, knocking there head on the way over the side and drowned. Perhaps you wouldn't notice, whilst your sipping your bottle of wine or perhaps even snorkelling. You cannot say that this is impossible, because it can happen to anyone, even the most vigilant of us. However, by your argument you would be a murderer.
I am not offering the opinion that life jackets should be compulsory, just how you would be viewed by someone with your views, when you were,to use your words, "the Captain" and totally responsible for their safety

Is that clear enough?

[codprawn]

Can I ask you a question Manos - would YOU get in a small boat if it was seriously overcrowded and water was lapping at the gunwhales???

I certainly wouldn't and I don't think anyone else would either - and I certainly wouldn't let my kids - although maybe my ex girlfriend yes!

[CJL]

One of the joys of being an adults means you can make your own decisions.

When I help run events for schools we always have to consider that the children are not in a position to make a proper decision.

The adults did have the ability to make a decision before they got on the boat. I`m not sure I want to be involved in a discussion of what the guy in charge of the boat did was wrong or right but perhaps we should be asking some of the adults why they did not question what they were doing?

I know your gonna say "well perhaps they did'nt have training"! Far enough, but its not like we are talking about an atlantic crossing which would need training. If some body gave me a gun I'd question myself if I tried to use it. (I`ve no idea how to use a gun - but I`ve seen Terminator)

Chris

[Manos]

Jono IMHO you better stick to the light bulbs.

I have not missed your point at all as you try to make a pointless point and I will stop the discussion here.

However, I will tell you only this............ when one endangers the life of children IS CRIMINANAL. This is criminal in my books and is criminal in this country and in many other countries. The fact remains that 5-6 were permited onboard this boat and 13 were found on board. That is WRONG and the person in charge of the boat is responssible for this!

Re life jackets is a pointless discussion and OFF TOPIC.

[Jono]

Manos,

Did you ever consider becoming a politician? You have all the admirable traits of that most noble profession.

[willowkis]

UPDATE........

Briton in boating accident charge


A British man who was in charge of a boat which capsized in Spain, killing three people, has been charged with causing death by misadventure.
David George Sheridan, 45, faces the charges following the accident on a dam in Mequinenza, near Zaragoza, which happened on Saturday.

The three dead, who were Bulgarian, included a married couple.

A Foreign Office spokesman confirmed the charge and went on to add that Mr Sheridan had been released on bail.

Court appearance

He said: "David George Sheridan was charged with causing death by misadventure.

"He appeared in court yesterday and was released on bail. The date for the next hearing has not yet been set.

"It seems he was in charge of a dinghy that capsized. From what we have been told, it was overloaded when the accident happened."

It was reported that at least six adults and seven children were on board the boat, which was designed to carry five.

The dead included a married couple, aged 34 and 36, and another Bulgarian who was living in Spain.

Mr Sheridan was born in Manchester but is believed to live in Cheshire.

Kim

[Manos]

The good thing out of all this sadness is that the children are OK.
By the way Kim do you know what 'death by misadventure' means?

[corrie]

the buck stops with the skipper...end of story!