Buying from BAE systems

[InlandAlex]

Hi All,

I was browsing the BAE systems website and was surprised to find they readily advertise basic specs for all their “small boats”. Not full specs by any means, but weight, power and speed etc...

I know Delta and MST try to avoid selling to private owners, but I wonder if you asked BAE and had enough cash whether one could order an arctic 24 of their own?

I wouldn’t mind getting my hands on a new build rigid raider also...

Any thoughts?

[Maximus]

BAE Systems do not sell kit directly to the Public.

Considering they are TRUE World leaders in deveopmental defence systems and manufacturing...with many joint US -UK joint ventures across many fields and all Armed Services ...involving many BILLIONS of Dollars across the World ....it's hardly surprising.
You seen their electro-magnetic "Rail Gun" in development?....
The first real world U.S Navy deployment THIS year...in the South China Sea for some reason

What you thinking of or after?
By the Way those "Rigid Raiders" are awful especially compared to a decent RIB!...but do come up for sale.

[GuyC]

I've corrected it for you.

Originally Posted by Maximus

BAE Systems do not sell kit directly to the Public.

Considering they are potentially TRUE World leaders in deveopmental defence systems and manufacturing...with many joint US -UK joint ventures across many fields and all Armed Services ...involving wasting many BILLIONS of Dollars across the World ....it's hardly surprising.
You seen their electro-magnetic "Rail Gun" in development?....
The first real world U.S Navy deployment THIS year...in the South China Sea for some reason

What you thinking of or after?
By the Way those "Rigid Raiders" are awful especially compared to a decent RIB!...but do come up for sale.

[Pikey Dave]

I recall seeing BAE boats at Seaworks a few years ago. Iirc a “basic” RIB started around the £200k mark.

[Orwell boy]

Originally Posted by InlandAlex

Hi All,

I was browsing the BAE systems website and was surprised to find they readily advertise basic specs for all their “small boats”. Not full specs by any means, but weight, power and speed etc...

I know Delta and MST try to avoid selling to private owners, but I wonder if you asked BAE and had enough cash whether one could order an arctic 24 of their own?

I wouldn’t mind getting my hands on a new build rigid raider also...

Any thoughts?

Probhably find one past its use by date ,never switched on at one of those military auctions ,

[InlandAlex]

Thanks all, I don’t have that kind of money, it was purely hypothetical!

Also... I agree that I wouldn’t take a RIgid Raider out to sea, however if you’re sticking close to the coast they aren’t bad. Especially when you consider the payload compared to an Orkney Dory...

[spartacus]

Anything is possible. Hey we live a new dawn now, apparently. You don't have an uncle living in Honduras by any chance?

Probably a minimum order value, plus order will go under British due diligence if the country can be exported to. That said we send stuff to Saudi Arabia, I rest my case.

[GuyC]

As much as I like my Pac 22, other than the cachet of their military association, they aren't anything that couldn't be achieved by a reputable builder, if you threw enough cash at them.

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by GuyC

I've corrected it for you.

Oh...you must Ribnet's answer to Jo Swinson

[GeoffW]

Originally Posted by GuyC

I've corrected it for you.

Sensible corrections there.

But also turning a blind eye to Bae systems well publicised corruption allegations on arms sales to Saudi.

Turning the other eye blind to poor value for money for uk tax payer and RN from Bae in having a near monopoly of warship building in UK so high cost per hull so fewer ships in our fleet.

Ignoring the fact as to reliabilty of T45 Destoyers fitted with unrelable Rolls Royce power units instead of tried and tested alternative. Perhaps political pressure on Bae to give them the benefit of the doubt . Fine ships , pending expensive repairs , essentially due to the first class Radar and missile system Bae develped in full collaboration with European input and partners France and Italy. But just 6 of them due to high cost. So only likely 3 or max 4 available to deploy at any point in time .

Certainly a company with a global pressence , but not sure its one that would encourage you to buy a rib from with other options available even if you could.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by GeoffW

Sensible corrections there.

But also turning a blind eye to Bae systems well publicised corruption allegations on arms sales to Saudi.

Aye, some corruption is well publicised, some you just have to scratch the surface & there it is. The Saudis are in negotiations to buy 3 ships, which would no doubt be welcomed on the Clyde. We could always refuse their business......

Turning the other eye blind to poor value for money for uk tax payer and RN from Bae in having a near monopoly of warship building in UK so high cost per hull so fewer ships in our fleet.

Aren't they built on Clydeside? Are you suggesting we move the work to somewhere cheaper?

Ignoring the fact as to reliabilty of T45 Destoyers fitted with unrelable Rolls Royce power units instead of tried and tested alternative.

The Rolls Royce engines were fitted on instructions from the then Labour Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon. Both The Royal Navy & BAE wanted to use the tried & tested GE LM2500, but even though the Labour government accepted the RR engine was a risky choice, it would protect British jobs.

Perhaps political pressure on Bae to give them the benefit of the doubt . Fine ships , pending expensive repairs , essentially due to the first class Radar and missile system Bae develped in full collaboration with European input and partners France and Italy.

The initial Type 45 project was started as a collaboration between the main NATO countries including the US. The UK & US pulled out when the other countries got cold feet over the cost & wanted a cut down version. So the UK/France/Italy formed a new alliance to build the ship, but due to arguments & disagreements, the UK decided to go it alone (Sounds familiar) Hence the ships are all UK built, 2/3rds of which is done in Scotland, supporting Scottish jobs (I think I already mentioned that)

But just 6 of them due to high cost. So only likely 3 or max 4 available to deploy at any point in time .

Currently 4 on active service, 2 in for re-fit

Certainly a company with a global pressence , but not sure its one that would encourage you to buy a rib from with other options available even if you could.

If we're playing the "Sensible Corrections" game.....

[GeoffW]

Arms sales is a murky world , rarely going have your hands clean , nature of the beast .

Your Scottish jobs slant is a distraction as no yard elsewhere in uk currently has the skills or capacity. So not going there . A red herring. I take the view with a UK hat on . Customer is UK RN and Uk taxpayer. As a scottish / uk tax payer I want best value for Uk and Navy

History shows British defence procurement is a car crash when it comes to going it alone. Nimrod. Billions wasted , years with no maritime aircraft , then buy US . Astute subs again delay cost and spec issues , we were good at that but again delays in ordering the skills were lost. Others to add to that list

Defence kit now is so pricey and sophisticated the Uk as a middle ranking European country with limited resources needs to collaborate with European partners and Allies

So in answer to your Scottish jobs tease. For sure buy abroad if it its best for uk taxpayer and the navy. Painful but true

The US Arleigh Burke is a far better ship and is sold to many countries with thier slant on it Australia Japan Korea. All have this basic design and it works. They all rank well above the T 45 for weapons and capabilities . For thier big displacements the T 45 is underwhelming. Especially as they need expensive fixes.

I hope we get the T26 right as we could have a real export success there with sales to Australia and Canada. But as history shows uk politicians and civil servants can srew up these projects.

[Poly]

Ok - I think we’ve already strayed beyond the no politics boundary and the OP has an answer to his question...