Club rescue boat

[ShinyShoe]

No-one should ever be reporting someone at this stage. So first thing anyone should do is bring it to the attention of the club. So when someone comes to collect the fixed boat Jim should simply say "By the way there were a couple of little things that need attention before it goes on the water. The kill cord is well past its best and a good tug is likely to mean it wont kill the engine. And the flares are looking a bit past their best."

Guy collecting is likely to give one of three responses:

1. "Yeh, we know about those its been sat in the corner for 4 years unusued and the replacements are sat waiting for us at the club when I take it back."

2. "Oh, I'll get someone to take a look at it"

3. "The what cord? Oh that red telephone cord thingy - yeh its a real pain that when it gets tugged it kills the engine. And the flares is just cosmetic - they'd still work - I think!"

1. you know the fear is unfounded
2. it may be founded but they will probably do something. Depends on the culture of the club. If next time a boat comes in its in the same state your fears may be justified
3. your fears are justified. Needs escalated. Up to you to decide how to deal with that - letter to the commodore would be my first route then if no response or inadequate response - RYA.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

"By the way there were a couple of little things that need attention before it goes on the water. The kill cord is well past its best and a good tug is likely to mean it wont kill the engine. And the flares are looking a bit past their best."

That would be the professional approach but where's the fun in that
Much more entertaining to chuck it to the Ribnet Jury

[SteveHall]

I was more shocked about the 'rescue' knife than the flares.

Although I do prefer the style they have - it's always handy having a cheese knife ready for cutting the Stilton in an emergency!


Sent from my iPhone using RIB Net

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by SteveHall

I was more shocked about the 'rescue' knife than the flares.

Although I do prefer the style they have - it's always handy having a cheese knife ready for cutting the Stilton in an emergency!


Sent from my iPhone using RIB Net

Nah! the knife is in case of a shark attack, first thing to do is stab your mate

[Poly]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

Guy collecting is likely to give one of three responses:

You missed a number of other possibilities:

- **** off we asked you to service the engine not preach
- nothing to do with me, I'm just collecting it
- aye - i'll let them know, with such apathy you know they won't

I think Jim's "Duty" to his customer (and the public) goes beyond what you suggest - simply letting them know there is room for improvement is not enough IMHO. I certainly wouldn't want to be helping the MAIB with an enquiry or explaining to the Coroner why I had given it back with just a polite warning. We wouldn't accept that from a gas fitter or a car garage so not sure why we would on the water.

If I was servicing the engine I would expect replacement (or at least removal) of the kill cord. I'm not sure I'd want those flares in my workshop either - so I assume the boat will be going back in a much safer state. I have some sympathy with the club "management" - as others have highlighted they probably have nothing to do with the day-to-day maintenance of the boat and the users are probably disinterested too. Then they sent the boat for a professional service thinking (like a car) that it sorts everything - but actually unlike a car most only look at the engine. Imagine if your car service ignored a blown bulb, bald tyre, or dodgy brakes. What would cars be like after several years of just getting an oil change and some new plugs?

[willk]

The boat was in for "repair", not service. Jim has no responsibility to the public IMO, only that the repair is carried out correctly. If I was Jim, I would repair the thing to be repaired, not post pics online (which I would regard as unprofessional) and on the bill, I would briefly note the obvious defects - faulty killcord, expired and corroded Pyros. That way I might get more business and not put the entire country off bringing me work for fear of being grassed up

[willk]

Hmmmm. I seem to be channelling Twim. Big Soft Dave has gone soft and I'm turning into a Tory - go figure

[andyxs]

Which company do you work for Jim? Bit hasty on the photos! that is a bt of a disgrace as RIBS go, that their is no denying. Alot of club members should have known ALOT better than to let it slip like that if it was genuinly a in use, but public shaming with no back story. no thanks not for me. This obviously needs to be brought to the clubs attention but I think I would wait for the reaction before contacting the RYA or the MCA.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by willk

The boat was in for "repair", not service.

I'm sure the coroner will see the distinction ;-)

Jim has no responsibility to the public IMO, only that the repair is carried out correctly.

He probably has an obligation to his staff, his other customers, and his insurers that unsafe pyrotechnics are not stored (even temporarily) on site. If I was on the committee at that club and it came back from repair with that kill cord attached I'd be livid.

not post pics online (which I would regard as unprofessional) and on the bill,

interestingly posting them whilst it is still in your workshop raises a few eyebrows - but if he had done it six months later in an article titled "whats lurking on your club boat" would be seen as a public service highlighting a potentially common issue.

[CJL]

Didn't a certain marine engineering company get in trouble for doing unrelated work on a boat and not pointing out to the customer on collection a leaking hydraulic steering system that a few weeks later threw two out of the boat which then circled around on them and killed them??

Chris

[ShinyShoe]

Originally Posted by Poly

I'm sure the coroner will see the distinction ;-)

Well is it any different to me taking by car to a garage to have say a fuel pump replaced and them telling me when I collect it that there is a dodgy tyre?

Great I'm really pleased they told me. But I know about it and am taking it some place cheaper to have it replaced? Or dya mind swapping that over for me too? Or I can't afford to fix it but will get it done next week when I get paid? They may advise me not to drive on it. But in this case I'm guessing the boat was on a trailer so not being 'driven'

Car garages put things like this on repair and service reports all the time, often graded as immediate or advisory actions.

When I take my car to the main dealer they always do a 30 point check even if all I ask is them to plug it in and tell me why the orange light is on. When I take it to Uncle Al's car garage where the invoice is written by hand (usually an oily one) I don't necessarily expect Uncle Al to have checked my tyre pressures and he hasn't said he has...

Without knowing what the requested "repair" was its hard to know what the club expected done. Likewise we don't know if the boat came straight in from active service in which case it missed probably 2 annual flare inspections or if its been at the back of a dinghy park in hibernation in which case where is the issue.

Now if he wanted to win some browny points with the club he could just fit a new kill cord for them either at no or very minimal cost and tell them he's done it much like when I take my car for a service I don't feel they need to call me for a 48pence bulb - just fit it...

He probably has an obligation to his staff, his other customers, and his insurers that unsafe pyrotechnics are not stored (even temporarily) on site. If I was on the committee at that club and it came back from repair with that kill cord attached I'd be livid.

If it came back with the kill cord removed so someone would have to reconnect it and an advisory I don't see why you could be livid. Likewise if he offered to replace it all the better.

Pyro's - when did anyone last hear of some exploding by themselves? Not saying I'd want them in my workshop... If Jim supplies Pyro's he can offer to replace if not the best he can do is highlight it and decide what he wants to do with them while they are on-site.

interestingly posting them whilst it is still in your workshop raises a few eyebrows - but if he had done it six months later in an article titled "whats lurking on your club boat" would be seen as a public service highlighting a potentially common issue.

Depends if boat was in active service though.

[SPR]

Originally Posted by CJL

Didn't a certain marine engineering company get in trouble for doing unrelated work on a boat and not pointing out to the customer on collection a leaking hydraulic steering system that a few weeks later threw two out of the boat which then circled around on them and killed them??

Chris

Never heard of that one:

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources...l%20report.pdf

is the only one that remember with hydraulic at fault

S.

[ShinyShoe]

Originally Posted by Poly

You missed a number of other possibilities:

- **** off we asked you to service the engine not preach
- nothing to do with me, I'm just collecting it
- aye - i'll let them know, with such apathy you know they won't

I think Jim's "Duty" to his customer (and the public) goes beyond what you suggest - simply letting them know there is room for improvement is not enough IMHO. I certainly wouldn't want to be helping the MAIB with an enquiry or explaining to the Coroner why I had given it back with just a polite warning. We wouldn't accept that from a gas fitter or a car garage so not sure why we would on the water.

But your car garage does that all the time... ...or at least all of mine do. If there was something so dangerous they didn't think it should be driven I'd expect them to tell me that. Not sure they have any powers to stop me taking it. And I think they'd need to be damned sure it was dangerous to pick up the phone to the police when I did take it because it wont be good for business. BUT this boat almost certainly didn't come to Jim afloat... if it did I'd expect the would rectify the kill cord. The flares are a different story - how can Jim dispose of them for them?

I have some sympathy with the club "management" - as others have highlighted they probably have nothing to do with the day-to-day maintenance of the boat and the users are probably disinterested too.

So when I was a director of a sailing club we did care who was doing our day to day maintenance. If this had been one of our RIBs we would have expected that the users would have reported it on a defect book and the volunteer bosun would have taken remedial action. Even if they hadn't as a training club the training guy would have picked it up prior to annual inspection at the very least.

That doesn't mean that I've never picked up a club RIB and had a problem - far from it. But faults do get fixed. It also doesn't mean I haven't been running round on a Friday night before an event trying to find the missing first aid kit etc that seems to have vanished...

Then they sent the boat for a professional service thinking (like a car) that it sorts everything - but actually unlike a car most only look at the engine. Imagine if your car service ignored a blown bulb, bald tyre, or dodgy brakes. What would cars be like after several years of just getting an oil change and some new plugs?

So a phone call once you have it in the workshop to say "you asked for me to fix the thinghimibob but there are one or two other things that need looking at did you just want the thinghimibob doing or do you want us to look at the other bits and come back with a quote" seems a perfectly reasonable approach. Thats what my car garage would do...

But if I want to make sure its A1 - I book it for service not repair.
If I wasnt to make sure its safe I take it for MOT once a year. The non-mechanical parts of that should be being done as part of any RYA affiliation for training when equipment is checked. The mechanical bits should be covered on a service IMHO.

[willk]

My work here is done...

[SPR]

Originally Posted by willk

My work here is done...

lol


www.firstaidatsea.co.uk
www.SPRmarine.co.uk

[Jim Robinson]

My guess was it had been used as it was tied at both ends. I sent it back with a new cord and an advisory note. Obviously we should check for any potential problems when a boat comes in and report back like the tire example. A kill cord is equivalent to your car key and is such a simple item to check . With all the efforts made over the past year to raise awareness after Padstow, I just found it surprising to see a rescue boat with this gear on board.

[Rokraider]

I often get vehicles in for one repair and find it needs several others. I ring the customer and highlight the other issues and on the sales invoice I also highlight the other faults in writing. If the vehicle is unsafe to drive, I don't allow it to be driven away without them signing a disclaimer that I have advised them of the faults. I don't believe it is good practice to air their dirty linen in public, although in fairness, they have not been named and it might prompt another reader to go out and check their RIB, especially if it has been sitting about for a while.