CobrarescuedbyRNLI

[Rogue Wave]

Firstly I am glad you are OK, Cold isn't it

Cobra's do stuff and I don't really thik they are a boat for tough seas.....inboard or outboard! (that's Ribeye, Cobra's and Falcon owners who all hate me now)

Re the training ......yeah get some more the profession could do with the extra work, but I doubt if the rough water section of the advanced course is going to train you for the conditions you were in. ( i.e if it isn't that rough on the day of your course then where are the conditons going to come from. My advice is if you have to go out there in the rough then take a Buddy and his boat.)

There are a couple of rough weather skools over on the East coast. I think the guy that runs them is Dog Phillips

good luck next time.

[Roy Smith]

I think a lot of this is down to design we had a Cobra 7.5 i could fill both sides of a A4 paper with faults the most important being the draining
like why do they put the battery in the in the stern next to the tube and in front of a drain exit. We had to do so much work moving batterys sealing the front lockers etc.etc.
Just glad to hear that no one was hurt, you can always replace the boat.

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by Polwart

I accept what you say about (1) driver training and (2) boat design as being big factors.

But that wasn't what I said, was it

Originally Posted by codprawn

I am suprised at the Scorpion not having proper drains...

Be aware that Charles' boat is more like a sportsboat than a RIB - it has raised sides and a windshield, so it's not as open as most RIBs. http://www.biboatheribclub.co.uk/ima...o_ecrehous.jpg. Our Scorpion is much different, being fairly "traditional" in design, and benefiting from a low transom so that opening the throttle will displace all but the last few gallons from the boat. The elephant's trunk will quickly displace the remaining water, leaving the bilge pump at the lowest point to take the last few drops. One innovation of Graham's newer RIBs is the addition of a sump below the floor. Two "plugholes" in the deck allow water to drain into this GRP moulding where it's pumped out from. (I don't know if Charles' RIB has this). Still no substitute for elephants trunks though. The achilles heel of trunks, of course, is that they only work if you've remembered to lower them! One modification I would really like on our RIB is a remote release

[Paul]

People talk about RIBs as the 4x4 of the sea. This incident suggests to me that they are not. Despite everyones criticisms an 8.5m Cobra is a large RIB and likely to be as competant as any other large RIB although I accept the importance of being able to scupper inboard water easily. At the end of the day RIBs (even big ones) are a open boats, they may be very unlikely to sink, but if they "conk out" or capsize then your life is at risk. Reports that I have read about RIBs being used in very heavy weather have often resulted in technical failure/breakages. Should we not be using these boats in calm weather and relying upon there undoubted "reserve seaworthiness" if we are unlucky enough to need it as a result of an inaccurate weather forecast/misjudgement.

[codprawn]

See what you mean - seems the lower the transom the better - or even to do away with it altogether - shame the MCA don't see it that way when you want to code a boat!!!

[Andre]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

There are a couple of rough weather skools over on the East coast. I think the guy that runs them is Dog Phillips

good luck next time.

Well said RW. Dog is a great pal of mine and he is the one responsible for my getting into ribbing. Dog only runs his special courses during the winter months cos then is the "best weather" for such. I was due to have an extreme ribbing one last weekend but unfortunately it was cancelled

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by Paul

RIBs being used in very heavy weather have often resulted in technical failure/breakages. Should we not be using these boats in calm weather and relying upon there undoubted "reserve seaworthiness" if we are unlucky enough to need it as a result of an inaccurate weather forecast/misjudgement.

Very valid points. Rough weather does put you at the mercy of the elements if your equipment fails, and a large element of seamanship is balancing the risks. Inaccurate weather forecasts will always be a risk, but this can be mitigated by using more than one source, and evaluating forecasts by looking at the raw data from sites such as www.ecmwf.int. No point in moaning about the forecaster being "wrong" as it's your own life! When all's said and done, it's your own choice to go out, but I always prefer to make sure I'll be coming back under my own propulsion!

Originally Posted by codprawn

seems the lower the transom the better - or even to do away with it altogether...

Not necessarily... Having a low transom does have some advantages, quick draining is one of them, and another is the low C of G from a low engine mounting, but the biggest disadvantage is that reversing into waves gets you wet!

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by Paul

People talk about RIBs as the 4x4 of the sea. This incident suggests to me that they are not.

I think it's a pretty good comparison actually.

A well equipped 4x4, driven well, can get across some incredible terrain. It doesn't mean that you can cross the Darian Gap in a Chelsea tractor though.

Likewise a good RIB, driven well, can manage to get through some quite remarkable seas in safety and possibly even comfortably. That doesn't mean that just because it's a RIB you can go absolutely anywhere in any conditions.

John

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Richard B

One innovation of Graham's newer RIBs is the addition of a sump below the floor. Two "plugholes" in the deck allow water to drain into this GRP moulding where it's pumped out from. (I don't know if Charles' RIB has this).

It is. Don't know if its an innovation though - IMO anything electrically operated can go wrong, or fail altogether - how do you get the water out then?

Originally Posted by Richard B

Still no substitute for elephants trunks though. The achilles heel of trunks, of course, is that they only work if you've remembered to lower them! One modification I would really like on our RIB is a remote release

Could not agree more.

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by ct01

IMO anything electrically operated can go wrong, or fail altogether - how do you get the water out then?

Eggzackterley!

Only a frightened man with a bucket could ever compete

Out of interest, have you ever filled Scorpio up with water since, err, the first cross-channel you did in her?

[Paul]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

I think it's a pretty good comparison actually.

Likewise a good RIB, driven well, can manage to get through some quite remarkable seas in safety and possibly even comfortably.

John

I agree that RIBs are able to get through remarkable seas. The problem is that if your engine fails and you are in an open boat in "remarkable seas" you are at the mercy of the elements. Is this "safe".The boat may float but it is only a matter of time before you die of exposure. If you take a "Chelsea tractor" for a trip on the moors and get stuck in a ditch the likelhood is that you can walk home with no assistace from others. I suppose it depends on how you view "ribbing". I like to go out on calm days and minimise the chance of me being exposed to life threatening conditions. I think that planned ribbing in force 6 conditions represents an extreme sport.

[jwalker]

..Still no substitute for elephants trunks though. The achilles heel of trunks, of course, is that they only work if you've remembered to lower them! One modification I would really like on our RIB is a remote release...

I've being going to experiment with a bit of buoyancy at the neck of my drain drunks, just enough to keep the open end afloat. Once the boat is planing, it should drain as normal.

While we're talking about this, I've mentioned a few times about having a radius on the inside of the drain hole, I'll do one of me wee drawings to show why and start a thread.

[Hightower]

Originally Posted by Andre

Well said RW. Dog is a great pal of mine and he is the one responsible for my getting into ribbing. Dog only runs his special courses during the winter months cos then is the "best weather" for such. I was due to have an extreme ribbing one last weekend but unfortunately it was cancelled

Due to "Calm" weather I bet Andre

First of all, I'm glad you're all safe. I hope these first experiences haven't put you off.

My little RIB is prone to the Stuffing, I've had her filled to the brim of the tubes at least 2 times. What I have noticed is that when full to the brim, performance drops off considerably due to the increased weight. I go off the plane and this plus the extra weight of the water forces the elephants trunk under the surface of the water stopping fast draining of the deck.

As this was never really too much of a problem before (due to a low transom) I am having the transom raised in a couple of weeks. Might be worth putting a "rough weather" self bailer a little higher in the transom to assist the draining process if this happens again.

Anyone else had this problem?

[brucehawsker]

Adding my two penny worth. I have had water (that solid green no vision down the neck over the console type of water) a couple of times and had no problem with a single elephant truck and a minute or so running with the nose up. However, got a wave over the side and transom when coming into Mudeford a few weeks ago. Scary - strange looking down at the deck through six or eight inches of water. Again, walking promptly to the back, dropping the trunk, and two mins on the plane cleared it.

BTW if you get that horrid foreknowlege of an immediate impending stuff, full throttle (strongly counterintuitive) on the opti gets my bow so far up it mitigates the problem.

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by Paul

I agree that RIBs are able to get through remarkable seas. The problem is that if your engine fails and you are in an open boat in "remarkable seas" you are at the mercy of the elements. Is this "safe".

It may or may not be safe depending on the conditions and location. It's certainly not a situation to be taken lightly though

The boat may float but it is only a matter of time before you die of exposure. If you take a "Chelsea tractor" for a trip on the moors and get stuck in a ditch the likelhood is that you can walk home with no assistace from others.

That would depend on the conditions and the location too. Whether off roading or boating in difficult conditions it's generally better to go it in company so that you can help each other out if things get tricky.

I suppose it depends on how you view "ribbing". I like to go out on calm days and minimise the chance of me being exposed to life threatening conditions. I think that planned ribbing in force 6 conditions represents an extreme sport.

That's fine.

Whilst there may be some who think that having a RIB makes them invincible, I think that most people here know better. Those that start off that way tend to have a reality check quite quickly.

Every time you go boating you need to weigh up the risks and decide whether you find them acceptable or not. Different people like to do different things.

John

[Andy Moore]

Originally Posted by ct01

Have to agree with Polwart Richard - sorry, trying going though the Alderney Swinge when its on form; you can have any course and rating you like, the water simply opens up in front of you and there is bugger all you can do but hang on.

We went through some good overfalls in the Swinge two years ago. Our 31' yacht was going backwards down the face of the overfalls!

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Richard B

Eggzackterley!

Only a frightened man with a bucket could ever compete

Out of interest, have you ever filled Scorpio up with water since, err, the first cross-channel you did in her?

Yes, twice. Not as full as the other time, but at least half-way up the bench seat. Just had to wait for the bilge pumps to do their thing. Steve Banks who owns Sea Hound IV suffers the same problem and we are investigating somehow fitting decent scuppers. It is going to be very difficult due to the original construction. BTW, if anyone ever questions a Scorpion, as you know we have proved it unsinkable. I know, I know, that's what they said about the Titanic!

Originally Posted by Andy Moore

We went through some good overfalls in the Swinge two years ago. Our 31' yacht was going backwards down the face of the overfalls!

Tell me about it, its a sight to behold. Perfect place to brush up on your helming skills.

[Jozz99]

Thanks very much for all replies. I've concluded three things:

i. Go on a training course and improve my "feel" for conditions.
ii. Raise the electrics in the engine bay and improve water protection
iii. As I enjoy rough water I need to find a way to drain the boat more effectively probably with drains through the underseat locker, bulkhead and transom and elephant trunks - anyone know a boatyard I could trust to do the job near Poole?

[Roy Smith]

Originally Posted by ct01

Yes, twice. Not as full as the other time, but at least half-way up the bench seat. Just had to wait for the bilge pumps to do their thing. Steve Banks who owns Sea Hound IV suffers the same problem and we are investigating somehow fitting decent scuppers. It is going to be very difficult due to the original construction. BTW, if anyone ever questions a Scorpion, as you know we have proved it unsinkable. I know, I know, that's what they said about the Titanic!



Tell me about it, its a sight to behold. Perfect place to brush up on your helming skills.

We have a scorpion and i have wondered about how the boat would shift water in a big stuff, do the small drain plugs realy work, or as we did on our Cobra Carry a buckett.

[Top banana]

Im in the process of replacing my ball type bailers with \elephant trunks.
can the trunks be left down while afloat, or do they need to be hooked up.