Collapsed bulb & oil delivery issue

gotchiguy · 01 June 2013, 10:09

Finally got the boat out for a run yesterday. All electronics run fine but the oil issue we experienced once last year and the fuel issue we have experienced since late 2011 both reared there heads leaving us in limp home mode though thankfully only for about a mile at the end.

Firstly: randomly, every so often the engine just dies, and the fuel bulb is completely collapsed and impossible to sort. Leave it a few minutes and it very slowly regains shape and after a bit of squeezing it eventually goes back to normal. I don't think it can be a breather issue because I unscrewed the filler cap when it was collapsed and there was no rush of air. I suspect therefore a random blockage in the fuel pipe....debris in the tank that's floating around maybe?

Secondly: at the end of the day having run for a good few hours the "no oil/low oil pressure" warning comes up again, limiting us to 1000 revs. This happened last year in cherbourg and the end result was that having been left for a week the dealer who looked at it saw nothing wrong and just filled up the oil tank (despite there being plenty of oil already he just wanted to charge something!). The oil bulb is rock hard always. I am going to have the oil filter changed and perhaps the oil pressure sensor too as I am pretty sure it is the case of the engine thinking it has no oil rather than not actually having any. If you shut it off then restart it gives you 20 seconds of normal running to any speed and it sounds absolutely fine. Any thoughts where to look?

Nos4r2 · 01 June 2013, 10:44

Are you actually using oil from the tank? I'd change the fuel AND oil bulbs as a matter of course as well. It could easily be faults with them.

gotchiguy · 01 June 2013, 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Are you actually using oil from the tank? I'd change the fuel AND oil bulbs as a matter of course as well. It could easily be faults with them.

Yep I brimmed it on thursday, and it went down by about an inch after about 30nm navigation yesterday. This is the second fuel bulb that has shown the same issue as it was changed half way through last season.

Nos4r2 · 01 June 2013, 11:25

What brand bulb is it? It wouldn't be unusual to have one go wrong when it's not very old.

gotchiguy · 01 June 2013, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

What brand bulb is it? It wouldn't be unusual to have one go wrong when it's not very old.

I'm not sure, I think it's genuine BRP. "Tempo" is the dodgiest brand isn't it?

Nos4r2 · 01 June 2013, 12:22

I'd go for Quicksilver if I was changing them-not had one fail yet, and they don't go hard as badly as other brands.

Personally I wouldn't use a Tempo

Hightower · 01 June 2013, 13:29

The fuel issues sound like it could be debris in the fuel pipe. I stripped out a pipe from my osprey last weekend and found it full of resin from the fuel tank that had collected at the fuel transducer barb.

gotchiguy · 01 June 2013, 15:38

I thought this all would have been sorted because all the lines between the console and the engine were replaced.

I had originally said on here that the underdeck trunks were full of oil due to poor joins but when pressed I had no explanation where this was coming from. It was found that there were THREE joins in both the oil and fuel cable. Little plastic double bayonets wrapped in gaffa. The At least a gallon of XD50 was pumped out from the underdeck trunk where these had been leaking!!! It is a shame replacing with a single length of pipe as it should be has not cured the issues.

gotchiguy · 01 June 2013, 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hightower

The fuel issues sound like it could be debris in the fuel pipe. I stripped out a pipe from my osprey last weekend and found it full of resin from the fuel tank that had collected at the fuel transducer barb.

I do seem to remember you made a post about the wrong resin being used and clogging up the pipe but I can't seem to find it??

perhaps I am mistaken.

The fuel pipe will be removed and probably replaced dependant on its condition. The blockage must be on the tank side of the bulb for sure.

Oil tank wise, replace oil filter and sensor is the only appropriate approach I think.

wavelength · 01 June 2013, 17:09

fuel pick up in the tank? blocked at the gauze filter inside the tank itself. (simply cos a colleague on here had exactly the same symptoms last month). Do you have a connection for a spare tank and if so is it ok on that tank

gotchiguy · 01 June 2013, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavelength

fuel pick up in the tank? blocked at the gauze filter inside the tank itself. (simply cos a colleague on here had exactly the same symptoms last month). Do you have a connection for a spare tank and if so is it ok on that tank

Problem is running on a 25 litre external tank would not last very long or prove much because the issue only occurs sporadically. Looking back over the log book (was first time out this season with all new fuel&oil lines) it happened nearly every time we went out last year. Going to have the pick up checked and replaced if necessary. If nothing wrong with it then we'll just have to drain the tank which is hardly a very attractive proposition!

Hightower · 01 June 2013, 20:20

At some point I'll remove my pick up tube and insert a longer one and manually remove all the crud in the bottom of the tank using a syphon pump or bulb.

wavelength · 01 June 2013, 20:57

Quote:

Problem is running on a 25 litre external tank would not last very long or prove much because the issue only occurs sporadically.

but if you swop to it the next time the fault occurs it may point to where the problem is lurking but may also get you home at normal speed. Personally I detest underfloor tanks-sometimes neccesary but basically the spawn of the devil.

Aries · 01 June 2013, 23:02

Vacuum forming in tank or lines? Breather blocked?

Mate had sporadic fuel issues. Was the inner core of an old fuel line collapsing on itself though you have replaced yours. Bulb description similar.

After a while the vacuum would readjust and it would work. More power faster it would happen, so slow trip out of harbour ok. Blast across Solent....stop. 5 mins later work again.

gotchiguy · 02 June 2013, 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavelength

but if you swop to it the next time the fault occurs it may point to where the problem is lurking but may also get you home at normal speed. Personally I detest underfloor tanks-sometimes neccesary but basically the spawn of the devil.

It is the oil issue that restricts speed. After five minutes of being dead the engine runs fine the rest of the trip. Doing something when the fault occurs is a good idea though...perhaps disconnecting the fuel line from the tank? But what would that prove? I don't know. We will see what comes up when the pickup is inspected. If nothing then the tank needs to be drained.

martini · 02 June 2013, 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hightower

The fuel issues sound like it could be debris in the fuel pipe. I stripped out a pipe from my osprey last weekend and found it full of resin from the fuel tank that had collected at the fuel transducer barb.

I've come across this before as well with grp tanks so I'd recommend taking out the pick up pipe too.

Didn't GJ0KYZ have the same no oil warning issue, cured with a new sensor?

Sent from my portable speaking device using Rib.net

Erin · 02 June 2013, 13:58

Your fuel problem sounds vary similar to one I had on my previous rib. I traced the problem to debris which had worked its way up the fuel line to the first restriction it met which was the inlet barb on the filter. Check this if I were you.

gotchiguy · 02 June 2013, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erin

Your fuel problem sounds vary similar to one I had on my previous rib. I traced the problem to debris which had worked its way up the fuel line to the first restriction it met which was the inlet barb on the filter. Check this if I were you.

Filter just replaced so should have cured that if the blockage had got that far. Having seen some of your older posts about it I have asked for the bulb to be moved between engine and filter not tank and filter. Really frustrating!

ian parkes · 02 June 2013, 18:36

With the boat on the trailer why not remove the fuel conector that fits on the engine and fix another length of pipe to it and simply syphon the fuel off into cans .
You may see the same thing happen . My mate had similar problems last year and fuel line was breaking up inside and blocking the line , i guess the engine was sucking the bulb flat before it stopped.
Some time back i bought a boat with an etec and the demmo boat was constantly going into limp mode with no oil warnings . They sorted it with a laptop there and then and told me it something to do with the programming for which type of oil it was using as they can also burn normal oil at a higher rate then the xd50 ?? probably bull knowing that dealer but possible i guess ?

Erin · 02 June 2013, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotchiguy

Filter just replaced so should have cured that if the blockage had got that far.

The whole filter unit or just the element? I would pull the hose off the filter inlet and just check there's nothing wedged in there.