Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords? What do you think?

[nigel52]

Originally Posted by paddlers

I suspect many on here started at a young age with a cheap/borrowed boat either on the coast or as I did rivers & the Lake District. I used to waterski on Ullswater until they brought in the speed limit for free with no regulation in the 1980's then Windermere with the registration system but well policed by the wardens until they brought in the speed limits so that was that. For the last couple of years we've gone up to the Mull of Kintyre & my lads both 14 have a 3m plus sib with a hard deck, last year they had a 4.5hp Mercury this year a 15hp Mercury fitted with a kill cord. We also take a 17ft hardboat with a 135 on the back. It adds to the fun that we ALWAYS wear lifejackets, kill cords and have vhf/flares/drogue/anchors etc No amount of legislation will teach people common sense, I hope my kids when they are older & earning a few quid will be able to enjoy the freedoms I currently do & have done boating without being burdened by regulations. Safety first then enjoy !! By the way I do buy my boats/engines on ebay....

Paddlers - firstly great that the family are learning from a young age and have safety instilled from the start. Best way to learn.

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by GTEM19889

I do not think Kill cords are the answer. I think the answer is to have a spring loaded foot pedal throttle in a boat like a car has. I used to do powerboat racing and first raced in a hydroplane which had a spring loaded hand throttle. Later I moved onto a bigger boat that had a spring loaded foot throttle.
Just a thought

Maybe you should think about how a foot throttle would work with a jockey seat? I'm betting you were sitting in a bucket seat whilst using a foot throttle?

If you had a functioning kill cord what use would a foot throttle be?

[GeorgeR]

What about the seats that Cobra use? If he had been on a jockey seat he is far less likely to have fallen out.

I think a spring loaded hand throttle is a good idea too.

[Hashname]

Yes I agree with the introduction of registration and the mandatory usage of Kill Cords, although I do use mine all the time.

[nobby clarke]

Education not legislation !

[mister p]

How about education and legislation?

[derdle]

Looking at the recent incident I see an educated professional out for a day with his family, they seem to have had all the right kit on and the boat seemed well maintained with all the right gear. The kill chord was in place but not attached. I suspect it is more likely he slipped it off for a spot of lunch or something else and with human nature he forgot to re-fit it. I think we have all done this at some point and if you haven't then you are probably a liar.

Legislation cannot prevent these kind of accidents, It will just make them more expensive accidents.

IMHO and i am not experienced seaman I think the following may help.

1. A visual reminder on the dash be it a sticker or whatnot would help.
2. The boat and engine manufacturers should work together on a wireless immobilizer that if submerged or moved an x distance from boat or engine will kill it. It could easily be designed to need skin contact to work. (immobilizers have been on other vehicles/equipment for years). This will also cancel out the reasons some people are giving for not wanting to wear kill chords
3. A very basic one day course with a written exam focusing mostly on safety and basic rules of the road etc. And as the RNLI have the most first hand experience of the result on a lack of training they could design and run the courses and the money generated should go directly to them offering them additional revenue.
4. Life jackets or at the very least buoyancy aids compulsory on open boats while they are underway.
5. Magazines and advertisers should promote the safety aspect in the photos and adverts instead of babes in thongs lying on sun decks at 50 knots (and no i'm not gay)

I do not think heavy regulation will work. It will take away the freedom that most people enjoy.
a fool will always be a fool but we can at least try and make him/her an educated fool.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by ssobol

In my experience the people with the most disregard for the normal rules of society generally feel that said rules don't apply to them anyway due to an exaggerated sense of entitlement. As a result any legislated rule will be ignored by exactly the type of people it is intended to apply to.

Boaters who are responsible for their actions already do all the things any new legislation will require.

It's like to brouhaha about gun registration in the states right now. Responsible gun owners will register their guns. People who actually want a gun for nefarious purposes won't. So what exactly is being accomplished? (Other than the politicians trying to look busy.)

Ignoring the use of the emotive 'gun' word here (I bet someone can't!) I actually agree with this 100%.


A few years ago I was at the RBS/HBOS/ whatever acronym they were at the time executive christmas party. At the end of the party most of the 'executives' staggered into their cars and drove off, so pissed they were barely able to walk. I had to be physically held back from phoning the police.

We're NEVER going to get people like this to obey legislation.It 'doesn't apply to me,I'm a law abiding person'.They're just the demographic to go and buy a 300/600/900hp RIB on a whim and go nailing about without training or any form of clue. However, if they understand the dangers they're far more likely to wear a killcord/not act like a knob.


Note that what I've said above isn't a comment on the accident at the weekend.

[goodhard]

I voted to stay unregulated as we are because I believe we have to much regulation already. We all have to pay for regulation be it through higher taxes , new licences, compulsory courses etc. Less money in my pocket equals less fun on the water.
Do we really want to add to army "little hitlers" dictating what we can and cant do? This is a terrible tragic accident, I for one will never trust a kill cord wrapped round my wrist. It will always be round my leg or attached to my life jacket. Focus your regulation where the deaths are ....on the roads 1.2 million per year globally

[Siochair]

Originally Posted by GeorgeR

What about the seats that Cobra use? If he had been on a jockey seat he is far less likely to have fallen out.

I'm sorry but I would rather have a seat that gives some upper body stability. Jockey seats are only good for relatively low speed rough weather. Once you get much about 20 knots they are a liability unless you also use toe straps.

I have a suspicion that the reason jockey seats have become so prevalent in recent years is that they are cheap and easy for the boat builders to make.

[Barry Carson]

My comments here are general and in no way make reference to any particular incidents. At present I vote for education over legislation. In any event there is already legislation regarding duty of care in tort law that may allow an action with regard to the non use of kill switches in boats.

With education can come a better appreciation of the risks and a change in attitude. Look at society's change of attitude regarding smoking. Not only is it unlawful to smoke in your favorite pub or restaurant but it's now considered sociably unacceptable. I think we need a similar change of thinking and attitude regarding safety on the water. This can be the best form of legislation and the policing thereof.

History shows that certain people will always ignore formal legislation and more so when they believe they can get away with it. Just look at the blatant speeding in restricted zones despite clear signs and others obviously struggling to launch/recover their boats on slipways in their wash and turbulence. I see it only too regularly in my backyard here on the Solent. Simply no regard. Another example of similar blatant disregard being the continued use of mobile phones when driving on our roads, and that's much easier to police. Common sense and courtesy sadly just doesn't exist for some. And then there are those of us who occasionally simply forget to attach the kill cord. Could we be confident that would be policed fairly?

Considering these points it is difficult to see how even more legislation can be particularly effective when it may not be effectively policed and existing legislation such as regarding speed limits is not already as effective as it ought to be.

However having said that maybe something to consider at a later date when we've got present legislation and policing more effective? In the meanwhile rather than seeking more legislation maybe better we campaign for a change of attitude to make driving fast craft without a kill switch attached as socially unacceptable.

[chris262112]

Attach your kill cord to your life jacket permanently . Now you can't start your boat unless your wearing your life jacket and incase you go from the helm and return and forget to pick up the kill cord etc. might also be a good idea to put kill switches round the seating areas of your boat. But check this doesn't void warranties

[Into The Blue]

The weekend’s events are a tragic reminder of just how things can go badly wrong, I’ll admit to making the mistake of not reattaching the KC after a picnic on the boat at anchor. There but for the grace of god, go I. I will redouble my efforts to never fail again. The subsequent fatal event in the USA to Andrew Simpson only make me realise we engage with the sea at our peril.
However after a week of reflection my focus would be on the reaction of those in places of authority that can and should influence the fallout from the MAIB report. HMS might not be putting forward a solution we agree with but he is raising his point of view in front of those that can legislate against the majority wishes, at least based on the vote on here.
If we are to be heard we must find a voice to support the outcome we want, be that through a single point or more likely a concerted effort to effectively communicate the message to our MPs. The message that there is more than one side to every incident and that if we do not want legislation or regulation for compulsory training or KC wearing, as we believe that it will have no positive benefit, we have to push the rational alternative to the top of the options list.
My views of the RYA are jaundiced and echo that of other posters on here; they’ll do nothing to protect our views, for whatever reason. There is no equivalent to the MAG group as far as I am aware, for us to turn to.
So if we want to counter the HMS point of view and we believe that a single tragic incident followed by an MAIB report will result in legislation, and we chose to do nothing, who do we blame when we all have to prove we are competent before we can enjoy the recreation that brings us all here?
The counter view is that IIRC the proposal from several years ago to introduce a specific law on drink driving a boat never got anywhere.
As an aside, I find it interesting that out of the total population of Rib.Net only 510 have voted. Despite the email that was sent to probably many more than that. Apathy is the true enemy of democracy. Engage with the political process and be heard or put up with the solution that is imposed. I will write to my MP, will you?
Rant over.

[Del boy]

Please forgive me if someone has already mentioned this, the RIB concerned looked to be a hired one, am I correct and if so then surely the company supplying the RIB would have talked them through the safety briefing.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Into The Blue

As an aside, I find it interesting that out of the total population of Rib.Net only 510 have voted. Despite the email that was sent to probably many more than that. Apathy is the true enemy of democracy.

I think you might find a lot of those that haven't voted are 'one post boat sellers' or people who've changed email address. Some of the data is many years old and out of date or people don't own boats anymore.

[clydeoutboards]

This for me is yet another great idea in theory but the practical side has not been thought through.

Lots of people on loch lomond break the law by speeding in the restricted areas even though there is a huge area with no speed limits. The rangers and the police are lucky if they get 1% of offenders and hence the problem has not be solved so how will any new law be enforced UK wide? oh and also who will pay for this?

If we can not enforce laws on water that is only 25 miles long then we have no chance of doing it uk wide.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Del boy

Please forgive me if someone has already mentioned this, the RIB concerned looked to be a hired one, am I correct and if so then surely the company supplying the RIB would have talked them through the safety briefing.

No, it belonged to him. However, that's not what this thread is directly about

[Into The Blue]

Nos4r2, I'd agree completely. So if there are 500 of us that use this site regularly surely 1 letter each to an MP would have some impact? Better to have 12000 but that's simply not realistic.

[Nos4r2]

I wonder if we could get a pro forma letter to send/email.

Anyone up for it?

[derdle]

Originally Posted by Del boy

Please forgive me if someone has already mentioned this, the RIB concerned looked to be a hired one, am I correct and if so then surely the company supplying the RIB would have talked them through the safety briefing.

The sky news report said it was "Family owned" thats all I know.