Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords? What do you think?

[chris.moody]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Far simpler to have a kill cord and use it. It works. Any bollocks excuse for not using it is just that-utter bollocks.

Exactly. As for the I can't remember to put it on excuse.

Well you remember to:
Check the weather forecast
Check the bung is in
Check the telltale is working
Ensure you have enough fuel
Put your lifejacket on
Do a radio check on your VHF
Remember to untie from the pontoon.

If you manage that lot how hard can it be to put the kill cord round your leg.

[Jeff Hutcheon]

I wish some of you lot out there would stop going on and on about this that and the other gismo's and just carry on using "or not at your own peril " the tried and tested and trusted kill cord.!!

[Poly]

Originally Posted by chris.moody

Exactly. As for the I can't remember to put it on excuse.

Check the bung is in

emm, well let me tell you a little story...

[longjohn]

Originally Posted by PeterM

I'm sure I've driven a rib with a sprung hand throttle....I just can't recall what it was!..I've a feeling it may have been Grimalkin?

True Grimalkin's throttle kinda needs keeping in place - but its certainly not spring loaded to throttle back to idle as soon as you let go! I would say its just that the friction loading is pretty much set to minimum

[frankc]

It is very common for a twist grip throttle to back off to low speed if you let go of it with the motor in operation. With a remote throttle, I am not sure if this is built into the assembly.

Whatever the case, you can legislate until you are blue in the face, but there will continue to be accidents.

I have run outboards for about 58 years, and kill switches have not been installed on motors for that many years. Today we are swamped with people having good intentions but not considering just what the effect of legislation costs. Reality check, you cannot prevent people from having accidents. Every time some bad incident happens, only the foolish would propose legislation on the grounds that it may be helpful. They avoid doing a cost study and insist on signing over their freedoms to a governing body who is primarily interested in making money from the laws. They also do not care what the costs are for people trying to meet the law.

I believe this proposal is for England, and living in the US, it will not affect me thank goodness. I will terminate my subscription to this site at this time. Sorry for you folks.

[MattD]

Originally Posted by Anchorhandler

Hi Cookee

I'm quite convinced that its just scaremongering by people convinced that mandatory training is not required.

I'm reasonably well tuned into the French boating scene as not only do i spend all my time boating over here but the brother in law is also a crewmember for the SNSM.

There is a much bigger maritime police presence on the water over here than in the UK. A lot of French complain about the regulation and random stop-checks by the maritime patrols but at the end of the day you have to ask yourself this.....how many defects and issues would we find in the UK if random stop-checks were introduced? We (very) often hear about boats running around with no lifejackets on board, no (or defective) VHF, no flares etc....

A few month ago both myself and fellow Rib.net member Tonto were involved in quite a spirited discussion on the subject of mandatory regulation. We both spend a very large percentage of the year on the water and can see better than most the issues caused by a lack of training.
Last year i spent the hourly equivalent of roughly 7.5 months non stop in the waters of the Solent and can recount some truly dismal and ignarant boating behaviour. (I've posted pics of some of them).

Although i'm not in favour of a mandatory KC regulation i am and have been for some time now in favour of a mandatory minimum safety certificate which would need to be gained before anyone wishes to own a boat.

I would like to see it administered by the MCGA (Not the RYA) requireing only a day's classroom training but concentrating on basic safety at sea.

Sadly, from where i sit and with my viewpoint of the boating community, i believe we're losing the battle in trying to maintain or promote a safe boating mentality.

"Education not Legislation"?? OK, but i fear that more and more nowadays, people are needing a gently regulatory "nudge" in order to get educated.

Simon

I have been reading this thread for a while now, and the ones that came before it. No matter how tragic it was that a whole family had their lives destroyed by an accident that is what it was; An Accident. Governments can legislate until they are blue in the face but accidents will still happen.

As far as I'm aware nobody knows what went wrong when that boat trip went wrong. Everyone is assuming that he wasn't wearing his kill cord and was over confident. If I had an 8 metre long RIB with that kind of power I can see why he might have thought it was a bit daft using the cord.

The poor sod dying and coincidently killing his son has made me rethink legislation. But it doesn't change anything and I don't see the point of taking our last freedom.

[Last Tango]

Like every other form of licensing it's primary motive would be another way of getting money out of us and have precious little to do with actual competence.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by frankc

I believe this proposal is for England, and living in the US, it will not affect me thank goodness. I will terminate my subscription to this site at this time. Sorry for you folks.

To be clear this proposal / campaign IS NOT being instigated by RIBnet, or its owners SocialKnowledge. This campaign is being driven by Powerboat and RIB magazine who are completely unconnected to the site.

[MattD]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

Like every other form of licensing it's primary motive would be another way of getting money out of us and have precious little to do with actual competence.

indeed; Slightly off topic... do you the Scotland will vote for independentce?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by MattD

indeed; Slightly off topic... do you the Scotland will vote for independentce?

Its massively off topic - and as with all politics a banned topic.

[mister p]

Originally Posted by derdle

I'm starting to wonder if i should have voted for legislation after reading the post's on this site from so called experienced members justifying there reasons for not using kill chords, these are the people that need the education and training.

SH1T happens all day every day in every industry and you should do what you can to prevent it. When you get thrown out of your boat, pass out, have a heart attack or whatever and get chopped up because you feel that you are too experienced to use a basic safety device then thats your choice. But it isn't my choice if that boat runs into mine or runs up the beach and cuts up my wife and kids that may we swimming.
If you don't want to where a kill chord buy a field, dig a moat, fill it with water and drive round it all day long with your kill chord flapping in the wind but if you don't wear one when out in public don't try and justify it or your just as bad as the asshole that over takes on a blind bend and runs head on into a mother and kids.

Nobody wants to live in a nanny state so act responsibly to prevent it.

THATS MY RANT OVER

Personally, I agree.

[mister p]

How would it go down if I agreed for all of you?

[Seafox47]

I run on the great lakes in Canada and USA. I believe it is in the person's own interest to use the kill switch. I figure in 5 degree water you survive about 8 minutes. Falling overboard and seeing your RIB continue its journey while you are in the water makes it a long 8 minutes before you are dead. I sure use mine, but i don 't think you can police or enforce this. Common sense tells me to use it, but them again is there common sense?

[paddlers]

Hard to believe that a tragic accident where somebody may or may not have been using one piece of safety equipment can open the door to the enforced regulation of thousands of people forever !! Once it arrives that's it, fees/rules/tests/fines/bans/boat certification/engine emissions/stickers etc etc etc We'll never be able to stop it or go back to a time before when you could enjoy what we now have. Not my idea of progress.

[Seafox47]

I am certainly no fan of over regulating an industry that is relatively safe. Having a sticker warning you to use a kill chord will not help so it is useless. Every day there are hundreds of motor vehicle accidents and most of those can be attributed to human stupidity. However all these accidents don't cause lawmakers to add new laws so why start now?

[thomas]

I disagree about the stickers, I don't think you should need one but clearly some people do, a reminder on the console will act as a subsumable message and a reminder but they need to get onto the boats of the non forum/mag readers too.

I guarantee everyone on here will be using their KC next time they go out.

[lakelandterrier]

Just picking up the question where's the best place to attach the kill codr yo the helm, I've always fastened around my leg in a rib as that is was I was taught.

It is however possible to forget to clip it onto yourself - especailly if you've been doing a bit of tricky launch / departing manoevering - as I think most would agree. I've always picked this ovessight pretty quickly / been reminded pretty soon andcertainly before opening up (part of the routine all round checks).

I think a reminder sticker can only help in this process.

If the kill cord was attached to the D-ring on my LJ, I would have to be connected to it before I could start the engine, and if competant crew had the same you're not worried about looking for a spare in emergency.
What are the risks / downsides of this? Can the KC attched to a LJ foul throttle / wheel / other equipment?

[demondesmond]

So, after following the various opinions and suggestions on this thread with interest I think the tone has changed enough to suggest another poll.
"Do you wear a kill cord as the helmsman with the engine running?" Yes / No
Please forgive me if this has been done before I suggest it now in the interests of education.
What do you think?

Des

[Avocet]

Originally Posted by PeterM

I'm sure I've driven a rib with a sprung hand throttle....I just can't recall what it was!..I've a feeling it may have been Grimalkin?

You recall well, Grasshopper ..... but, as Long John says, it isn't spring loaded: like Nos' Yam, it merely has a tendency to back off of its own accord.

Several people have commented on it over the years and it could doubtless be adjusted otherwise but I prefer it: it ensures that you keep one hand on the throttle at all times (although only light pressure required) and also means that in the event of a kill cord failure the boat will be slightly less of a danger.

[prairie tuber]

Originally Posted by paddlers

Hard to believe that a tragic accident where somebody may or may not have been using one piece of safety equipment can open the door to the enforced regulation of thousands of people forever !! Once it arrives that's it, fees/rules/tests/fines/bans/boat certification/engine emissions/stickers etc etc etc We'll never be able to stop it or go back to a time before when you could enjoy what we now have. Not my idea of progress.

Well said! Laws make terrible monuments. Unfortunately most politicians and too much of the electorate don't get that.

Here in Canada there was a shooting incident about 20 years ago where 14 people were murdered. An absolutely horrible, but isolated incident. How did our idiotic nanny state Liberal government of the day respond? By introducing a completely useless mandatory long gun registry which cost billions over the next 17 years of its existence before it was finally abandoned.

Proponents of this fiasco were unable to provide a shred of evidence that the registry saved a single life, yet there was one case where it actually directly led to the death of a police officer. This officer did not take standard safety precautions while approaching a suspect's residence because she assumed there was no firearms. She made that assumption based on a search of the registry database that provided a false negative.

So in short, anytime you hear someone yell "There ought to be a law" as a knee jerk reaction to a tragedy or some sort of injustice, think very carefully before jumping on that bandwagon.

Bottom line is always wear a kill cord when operating a powerboat regardless of whether it's mandated by law. If you are a passenger, never get in a powerboat whose operator does not use a kill cord.