Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords? What do you think?

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by harryesd

Harry, someone's inadvertently deleted a [/quote] in there somewhere. Stop quoting it and make sure you don't start replies off inside the [/quote]s and it'll stop happening.
It'd take me half an hour to fix it so I'm not going back and editing it-I'd only get one wrong and have to do the whole lot again.

[GWawol]

[QUOTE=Cookee;536590]I'm with you on that one!

Originally Posted by derdle

Seriously?



What about water-sports users? If I'm helming in my wetsuit and want to water ski I have to remove some electrical device and attach it to another driver every-time we want to swap? It's over complicated and pointless - Kill cords work and with education we can hopefully reduce the number of accidents.







Great if you only have a regular crew that all have a kill cord, what do you do if you're coming alongside short handed? Have to clip you cord back on to restart the engine every time you move away from the throttle?



For someone's first post I would suggest that's a bit strong, maybe you should consider your membership if you want to act like that!

Hi Cookee - Not my first post and been a member since 2010 (different name ! ) I read regularly, but contribute sparingly so promise you, I do 'consider' all my actions, perhaps more than many of the more prolific contributors .... I consider the preceeding post to which I responded to be ill-considered and therefore don't feel my comment in-appropriate. Hope that's not "too strong" for you and we all continue to enjoy the 'cut and thrust' no matter how high / low profile our contributions !

[frankc]

I entered this thread only after receiving an e-mail from the site. My mistake was to believe that the site was recommending restrictions on your members which I would hate to see become law. One of the principals of the site was nice enough to point out to me that this was not a recommendation but a poll to see how the members felt about proposed regulations. I appreciate this gentleman pointing out my misunderstanding for me.

In my part of the world, we enjoy many boating freedoms, and I think it is a shame that there are places more restrictive to their boaters. Safety is a big part of my boating, as I take personal responsibility seriously. In my years on the water, I have operated everything from paddlecraft to ocean fishing machines. Even though they are not as commonly used here, I enjoy an inflatable also.

There are those in this world who believe they can take control of other peoples lives and tell them how to live. We have had problems in our country from that type who try to restrict freedoms of others in the name of safety and go flying off in the wrong direction in a self righteous manner.

When making knives, I joined an English site which was a goldmine of information. In so doing, I was made aware of the many restrictions placed on the makers in the name of safety. Possibly well meaning, but the dangers come from human evil and not from the honest craftsman who only desire to make a product for personal satisfaction.

No one in their right mind goes boating with the intention of being dangerous to himself or others, but some do present a danger. There are laws on the books to deal with their actions with appropriate punishment. It is neither necessary nor sensible to punish honest men and women's recreation by too restrictive laws.

[mister p]

How about protecting the careful and considerate from the not so careful and inconsiderate? How do we do this?

[mister p]

Willk, I'm not for regulation but for education esp regarding boat usage. When I spoke with HMS it became increasingly obvious to me that to enforce any regulation will require an infrastructure that will cost. That means that funds will have to be raised to work this.
This will mean taxation of one form or another by ever increasing regulation.
In my opinion this is a can of worms best left unopened.

[frankc]

You have the same odds protecting the considerate as you do in stamping out human evil, crime, or auto accidents. You cannot live in a protective bubble or a cell, nor would you want to.

Even then you could slip in a bath tub or suffer a fall. There is no absolute safety or utopia.

[mister p]

But we have speed limits in harbours and no go zones for PWC's, and radio legislation, lighting regulations, priority protocols for sail and motor. A lot of people are ignorant about what they can and can't do. It's about education. The thing is you need something to be able show that you know. And to be safe in the knowledge that those around you know enough so that you and your family are safe on the water.

[frankc]

I am 100% behind you in the desire for education. The biggest help would be if people just exercised common courtesy, but alas, it tends to be a me society anymore.

When younger and running the rivers, people were embarrassed if they broke normal care for another boater. Today many just sneer and feel they got away with something. That is very disturbing, but changing attitudes is above my pay grade I fear.

That makes enforcement of reasonable laws necessary, but punitive laws which curtail the freedoms of normal citizens are going in the wrong direction.

Punish the wrong doer and do not curtail the actions of reasonable people. Don't add equipment costs which would prevent the young families from enjoying the water. We started in the past and owe it to the young not to throw financial stumbling blocks in their way.

[mister p]

Absolutely, but how can you punish somebody for something that isn't "wrong" because nobody has put it down as being wrong? And then who is to catch the wrongdoer in the act and then who is to punish them?

[SeaingRed]

It looks like, although I haven't read all the posts, that those of you who are dead against "regulation" are so because you are worried that it would stop you from going out on your boat in the same way that you would now! I can't see how saying to people if you want to be in control of a vessel, in which there is a significant risk that the "helmsperson" could be thrown from the helm, then you MUST attend Powerboat Level 1 and probably get your VHF license too, would be in any way over regulating boating. There are too many people out there already who are accidents waiting to happen either to themselves or others. I know that it all needs defining a bit but I strongly believe that there should be a compulsory qualification for users of "powerboats" and its something I have thought for years

[Nos4r2]

Then read all the posts.

[Cookee]

[QUOTE=GWawol;536648]

Originally Posted by Cookee

I'm with you on that one!



Hi Cookee - Not my first post and been a member since 2010 (different name ! ) I read regularly, but contribute sparingly so promise you, I do 'consider' all my actions, perhaps more than many of the more prolific contributors .... I consider the preceeding post to which I responded to be ill-considered and therefore don't feel my comment in-appropriate. Hope that's not "too strong" for you and we all continue to enjoy the 'cut and thrust' no matter how high / low profile our contributions !

As you can no doubt imagine, your profile has no information other than you are a first time poster and it was that information I based my comment on.

[SeaingRed]

Sorry Nos4r2, when I have a spare couple of hours I'll sit down and read all of them! But still, I think that making people take PBL1 or 2 isn't going to harm anyone and should make people more aware of what can go wrong if simple safety precautions aren't taken.

Doing PBL2 made me a better boater and I wasn't a novice before hand, I just thought I should do it and I'm glad I did

[kerny]

Originally Posted by SeaingRed

Doing PBL2 made me a better boater and I wasn't a novice before hand, I just thought I should do it and I'm glad I did

.
Doing the PB2 course did give me the basic understanding of driving a rib but I can't say that it made me a better driver... experience has done that.

[Chris Caton]

Originally Posted by kerny

.
Doing the PB2 course did give me the basic understanding of driving a rib but I can't say that it made me a better driver... experience has done that.

i think the advanced course was much better than the PB2, certainly the night exercise was very interesting, navigating back into the Mersey from the Bar Light after dark was fun in a 5mtr rib, those big channel markers seemed to disappear with the bright lights of Liverpool behind them

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by SeaingRed

Sorry Nos4r2, when I have a spare couple of hours I'll sit down and read all of them! But still, I think that making people take PBL1 or 2 isn't going to harm anyone and should make people more aware of what can go wrong if simple safety precautions aren't taken.

Doing PBL2 made me a better boater and I wasn't a novice before hand, I just thought I should do it and I'm glad I did

Fair comment that it did, however, I fail to see how getting the government involved in boating is going to end up in anything other than a mass of red tape and spiralling costs for 'administration'. See my post a few pages back.

I do agree, there's an awful lot of people on the water who are as dangerous as Jimmy Saville in a firework factory using child labour. However, legislation won't stop them. The sentiment is fine, but government has proved time and time again that all legislation does is hike costs for those who did it properly while those it's aimed at ignore it.


Asbo anyone?

[frankc]

Instruction is good, but you cannot force people to follow the rules. The closest my wife and I came to a collision happened at night while we were throwing a net for shrimp.

We were about 10 feet from the bank when we heard a boat approaching at speed. Two drunks were out for a ride with no navigation lights running at full speed parallel to the bank on a collision course with us. We lit up with every light we had and they missed us by a few feet.

There is no protection from stupid. They were breaking several laws and endangering themselves and others, but there is no way they could claim they did not know better.

On another occasion, a law enforcement boat was running a narrow waterway at full speed on the wrong side of the creek. They barreled around a bend and nearly ran us down. I nearly beached the boat to avoid the collision and thankfully their wake only drenched us. These were the folks charged with training others, but they themselves were ignoring safety rules.

A game warden with a fast RIB bragged to us last year that he ran the narrow creeks through the marsh at 50+ MPH commonly. I will not say what I thought of his safety practices, but I am thankful the enforcement boat which nearly ran us down was not traveling at that speed.

Human nature is what it is, and no amount of training or regulations will protect you from bad behavior.

[Water Merlin]

I have got fed up with reading threads from people who believe it is too much trouble or difficult to wear a kill cord.

What would we think of someone riding a jetski (PWC) without a kill cord ?

What would we think of a child on a bike without a helmet ?

What would we think of a motorcyclist without a helmet ?

We should make the wearing of kill cords compulsory without a doubt. There have been many instances around the world of runaway boats causing death and injury through not wearing a kill cord.

This will cause a problem for the RNLI though as they do not wear kill cords, they seem to be immune from coming out of boats ! I think not.

Why not a proximity sensor for the dim people who are unable to locate the kill switch in a convenient position ?

[kerny]

Originally Posted by Water Merlin

I have got fed up with reading threads from people who believe it is too much trouble or difficult to wear a kill cord.

What would we think of someone riding a jetski (PWC) without a kill cord ?

What would we think of a child on a bike without a helmet ?

What would we think of a motorcyclist without a helmet ?

We should make the wearing of kill cords compulsory without a doubt. There have been many instances around the world of runaway boats causing death and injury through not wearing a kill cord.

This will cause a problem for the RNLI though as they do not wear kill cords, they seem to be immune from coming out of boats ! I think not.

Why not a proximity sensor for the dim people who are unable to locate the kill switch in a convenient position ?

I guess that you should have read this thread properly before posting your first post. Most of us are for wearing a KC but through education not legislation

[harryesd]

Originally Posted by kerny

I guess that you should have read this thread properly before posting your first post. Most of us are for wearing a KC but through education not legislation

Well said, it's like banging your head off a brick wall and thats just amongst us, god help us i we involve a government party.