Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords? What do you think?

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

I don't have a problem with the logo being on the sticker at all.

Seems fair enough to me. I don't particularly like the design but the plug for the magazine is suitably low key.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Ribbed41Pleasure

And then Mercury users (if like the last two I have owned) will have a greater risk of injuring people from false emergency stops because the kill cord toggle switch is too sensitive. I gave up using mine for this reason. I had to balance risk of no kill chord against using one which caused it's own dangers. So now only briefed 'trusted' crew go near the throttle/helm. I make it quite clear to everyone the dangers and get quite 'shirty' with people on the boat who don't listen or head the warnings. Kill chords in my experience solve one problem but can create another - they are not the holy grail in my view (for Mercury anyway)

Then change the killcord unit or location rather than doing something that stupid. Do you wear peril sensitive sunglasses as well?!

I've never had a problem with false kills and my Yam killcord switch is far more sensitive than any Mercury I've owned, including the currrent Opti. There is a hardware problem if your engine is being repeatedly killed when it shouldn't be.

[Sherak]

This world is far to full of legislation anyway! Why is there always a knee jerk reaction when something like this happens!

Basically what is being suggested is that something should be made more expensive and more difficult just because of a single persons silly mistake. Yes I agree this should be the case if we saw accidents like this weekly, or even monthly but we don't! Its just a terrible accident!

In this instance no 3rd party was injured or killed, again if this was the case the argument would carry more weight but they didn't.

Please, everyone or anyone who reads this thread, don't contribute to the already restrictive world we live in!

[dpround]

I think a clear emphasis on operating procedure in training may help. Always stopping the engine by removing the kill cord, never storing the kill cord in the kill switch and always inserting the kill cord as part of starting it would make accidentally not wearing the kill cord unlikely. This was not part of my recent training.

David

[orcamarine]

Hi all, my only concern and always has been is that regulating/licencing would become another tax and not benefit anyone. Education is the key and should start with every dealer. Part of the PDI is explaining the kill switch and correct usage. I wonder how many dealers actually explain safe usage to their patrons?

[biffer]

I haven't read them all but I probably can guess a 70/30 split against. My own thoughts would be education not legislation. It our last bastion of freedom lets not ruin it by putting unachievable guidelines in place. Look what's happened to boat racing. Accidents are going to happen no amount of regs and rule will ever stop them

[lakelandterrier]

I don't have a problem with a logo being on the sticker. Fair play to HMS for taking some action.

You'd have thought the engine manufacturers could play a part by providing suitable warning stickers at neglible cost - I've hear nothing about their approach / iput to this problem that has to be global.

I just cannot see how this can be enforced, and there are times e.g when casting off / tying up, that there maybe a parctical reason not to be wearing the kill cord- very difficult to legislate for.

[derdle]

Originally Posted by Ribbed41Pleasure

And then Mercury users (if like the last two I have owned) will have a greater risk of injuring people from false emergency stops because the kill cord toggle switch is too sensitive. I gave up using mine for this reason. I had to balance risk of no kill chord against using one which caused it's own dangers. So now only briefed 'trusted' crew go near the throttle/helm. I make it quite clear to everyone the dangers and get quite 'shirty' with people on the boat who don't listen or head the warnings. Kill chords in my experience solve one problem but can create another - they are not the ho
ly grail in my view (for Mercury anyway)

I had the same problem with a mercury. easy fix though I got a second chord and joined them together. longer string means more available hand movement.

[Mark Of Loxley]

Where I keep my RIB on Anglesey there is already the licence system issued by the council which is proof of insurance.

Proof of having a powerboat licence is going to be harder to police as individuals "may" loan out their boat to friends who may not have done the course.

Although it was a tragic accident, attaching your kill cord to yourself, either via wrist strap or clip on to a lifejacket should be the first thing you do. Have been in a similar incident where I was in a friends boat that hit a wave and he was thrown out of the seat backwards. Had he not been wearing his kill cord then we would have been in a similar situation.

Policing of speed infringements should be done by other boat users reporting unsuitable driving behaviour to the local harbour authorities. Easy enough then for the harbour master to 'have a word' with the offendor to 'keep it safe'.

There is enough control of people by the authorities as it is, we surely dont want it on the water as well. Freedom to explore should be balanced with common sense and polite behaviour toward each other.

[Cypman]

It is not Ribnet users who need educatiion or console reminders. It is the large group of boat owners who buy a boat and then go to sea, invariably without any training, insurance or life jackets.
How do we inform this group, without mandatory training, that is the question !!
Initiatives, like launching sites requiring to see insurance, etc,etc, are a good idea, but the information flow needs to be much greater. Maybe a government funded advertising campaign is now required, they do enough of them on driving related topics.

[argus]

Maybe education is the answer, not legislation.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Cypman

It is not Ribnet users who need educatiion or console reminders. It is the large group of boat owners who buy a boat and then go to sea, invariably without any training, insurance or life jackets.
How do we inform this group, without mandatory training, that is the question !!
Initiatives, like launching sites requiring to see insurance, etc,etc, are a good idea, but the information flow needs to be much greater. Maybe a government funded advertising campaign is now required, they do enough of them on driving related topics.

Or a sticker/sign added to every slipway/gate onto a pontoon?

There's pics of cancerous lungs on cigarette packets. Why not a pic of a prop injury next to slipways?

[MarineMick]

I am absolutely in favour of licensing and compulsory regulation. All my young daughters had to do an aptitude test, and numerous lessons then at last a driving test for their first cars. Yet they can buy a RIB and whizz about without any licensing or training. I think it's absurd. Don't start me off on easy availability of flares. This is my 37th. year as RNLI crew so I have some experience of both issues. Cheers.

[Ribbed41Pleasure]

Willks . . Haha if you say so

Nos4r2 - not sure 'bloody dumb' is a fair criticism as if the risks have been 'balanced' it is hardly 'dumb' .

I would be interested in what you believe to be the 'cuttoff' (no pun intended!!) of when a boat does not need a kill chord. Because with your stance it appears anyone getting on the water without a kill chord is plain dumb.

I also think this is a kneejerk reaction and yes boats are bloody dangerous. If everyone had that mind set when they stepped on one we would not be debating this issue.

I do not know your boat or your Yamaha set up or your boating 'style' so I would not dare comment, but I can assure you in my personal experience I have nearly broken a few skulls because the engine has quit at 40kts because the kill chord has tripped. Bad helm stance? - probably, bad throttle position? _ probably, Bad toggle switch design? - Probably, Bad operator technique? - Probably . . . this list could go on. My point it - I have had more near injuries at slow and fast speed using MY MERCURY kill chord than I have of mowing everyone down. I am not suggesting this will never happen as law of averages says it will. So I mitigate against both, one by not using the kill chord (unless only crew sat down in prone position in rough weather) and other times have a very strict policy on helm use and who goes where and how on the boat.

Maybe I am a fool, but dumb, no - I have thought about it. Something that I bet many to which this whole debate relates - have not. Education and an appreciation of whilst fun, it is bloody dangerous maybe the best defence.

[lingowdy]

I find it amazing that anyone in the UK can get into a powerboat and drive off without any training whatsoever, I keep my RIB in Greece and could not go into any Mediterranean waters without a licence. At least going through the training to obtain a licence gives you the basic safety rules, surely a mandatory licence is something we should have in this country.

[jezza2011]

I Must admit I dont often wear my kill cord especially when out diving on the rib.
I always wear it when I am solo on the rib as well as a life jacket.
but when diving and coxing it does get in the way. BUT I will be wearing it now.
In my 25 years of driving various ribs in al weathers and speeds I have never lost control of the RIBS. even when mucking about, high speed tight turns as I know my limits and the limits of the RIBS I have coxed.

education, training and seamanship are all invaluable.

Lets hope this tragedy is not repeated.

and I have ordered 2 of the stickers. i have no issues a mag giving away a sticker even if it has there logo on it.

[Nos4r2]

Do you really think any government run department would be capable of doing this without messing it up completely, charging us the earth then saying 'it's for your own good'?

[CJS]

No is the simple answer.

I was in a 5 car pile up on the M271 and licensing, testing, MOT's along with all the other costs and laws did not prevent that happening.

All it will do to the boat industry is make it even more expensive than it is already becoming.

No licensing under the sun can regulate common sense.

[boristhebold]

Originally Posted by Ribbed41Pleasure

And then Mercury users (if like the last two I have owned) will have a greater risk of injuring people from false emergency stops because the kill cord toggle switch is too sensitive. I gave up using mine for this reason. I had to balance risk of no kill chord against using one which caused it's own dangers. So now only briefed 'trusted' crew go near the throttle/helm. I make it quite clear to everyone the dangers and get quite 'shirty' with people on the boat who don't listen or head the warnings. Kill chords in my experience solve one problem but can create another - they are not the holy grail in my view (for Mercury anyway)

Why not look at fitting a different type of kill cord switch rather than risk use without one ?

[Sebbo]

Education and experience - regulation wont work, no enforcement / impossible to enforce = waste of money trying. Let common sense and good seamanship prevail. Unfortunate accident for sure, but exactly that "an accident". We don't need these kind of knee jerk reactions from people within / promoting the industry for self promotion!

I recently received a paper cut from reading Powerboat & RIB Magazine, perhaps we should ban printed publications!
HMS - get a grip on reality and remember your target audience. You'll be going bust again soon if you don't wake up a realise without RIB users you have no business. Increasing barriers to entry will only decrease boat sales and opportunity for all your loyal advertisers, this pass time is already a minority sport as you well know from the demise of RIB magazine!