Compulsory licensing and mandatory kill cords? What do you think?

[steco1958]

Originally Posted by IanH

I have recently returned to boating after about 25 year break. For 15+ years prior to that I spent pretty much all my spare time 'mucking about' in sailing boats and much of it passing my experience on to others. I feel that I have a healthy respect for water and the sea.

Whilst a lot of that time was spent in, and as a qualified sports and rescue boat cox the latter arts in charge of, safety boats, I am now returning to pleasure motoring with a small inflatable and reasonably sized outboard.

As I have gained a health respect for water and the sea in my previous life, I now consider myself a novice in my new adventure.

I have been educated by others and educated myself in all things kill cord. When I collected my engine, my dealer reiterated the use of the kill cord, when I open the manual of my boat, I get safety advice including use of kill cord, when I look at transom of my boat, I get pictures telling me to use safety kit like life jackets and kill cords, when I open manual to my outboard, I get told to use kill cord, and even though the picture on my outboard does not show the use of the kill cord on the start/stop switch for its starting procedure, I am educated enough to know that I should use a kill cord to operate this.

I do not need any more education or pieces of paper to tell me or to prove to others that I need to use the kill cord even though I just bought a boat and I a couple of weeks I'm going to be wizzing (at max 6.5 knots) up and down a fast moving tidal river with a potential torrent of a river mouth.

What makes the difference between someone using a kill cord or taking excessive risk, and someone else who might not, is respect for the sea, intuition, awareness of cause and consequence, and remembering to use it. All of those things can be present in people who just bought a boat or are fully qualified. But they can be equally missing from the same group of people.

Yes. People need to be educated, but the education for the things that would have prevented the recent tragedy is already there, along with freely available local knowledge. What was sadly missing, was either respect for the sea, intuition, awareness of cause and consequence or just simply a brief moment of absentmindness which no matter how well trained we are, can happen to us all.

Hopefully some good will have come from the high profile publicity of this accident and it will have reiterated to others the cause and consequence of not wearing a kill cord.

As for me not doing PB2 before taking to the water. There are some things in life where you need to try before you buy. This year, we will be keeping to our known limits and have prepared for some unknowns. Had i needed to get formal training, we would have been one family to miss out on the joys of boating. Next year, if we like boating as a family, it will be PB1 and 2.

Most eloquent !!

[redcroft]

I think all would agree the value of a craft being automatically brought to a halt if the operator was thrown or incapacitated but perhaps being tethered is - if we are all honest - often restrictive.

With technology and design being so available to just about any sport, hobby or occupation, would not some sort of proximity device be better like that of some modern cars? Your views would be interesting.

[Leapy]

Originally Posted by redcroft

I think all would agree the value of a craft being automatically brought to a halt if the operator was thrown or incapacitated but perhaps being tethered is - if we are all honest - often restrictive.

With technology and design being so available to just about any sport, hobby or occupation, would not some sort of proximity device be better like that of some modern cars? Your views would be interesting.

I'll be honest, I don't find a killcord restrictive. Equally, I don't find a car seat belt restrictive for the value it adds.

Read the thread through. You'll find some views on proximity devices There's also a related thread on killcords where views are also expressed.

[chris.moody]

Originally Posted by redcroft

I think all would agree the value of a craft being automatically brought to a halt if the operator was thrown or incapacitated but perhaps being tethered is - if we are all honest - often restrictive.

With technology and design being so available to just about any sport, hobby or occupation, would not some sort of proximity device be better like that of some modern cars? Your views would be interesting.

A marine saltwater environment is harsh on electrics, so I personally prefer the low tech solution of a Killcord.

I struggle to understand why people think it's restrictive. It's no worse than wearing a seatbelt in a car and nobody complains about that anymore.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by chris.moody

A marine saltwater environment is harsh on electrics, so I personally prefer the low tech solution of a Killcord.

I struggle to understand why people think it's restrictive. It's no worse than wearing a seatbelt in a car and nobody complains about that anymore.

Exactly my thoughts on them.

Getting up and wandering round while underway is a bad idea anyway.You wouldn't do it in a car-why do it in your boat?

If you've got a problem with a normal killcord coming off, the trigger is in the wrong place. Move it!


Personally, I don't like the idea of wireless kill cords. It's too easy to put in your jacket and forget that you've chucked the jacket under the seat.

[paddlers]

I like killcords, they're simple ! If it's maintained & checked it'll work.
The fact that some might get spotted without it on then be subject to a criminal/ civil offence then fined then what three strikes & you lose your boat license ???
I don't need to be fined to know that if I don't wear it I could kill myself, my family, somebody else !!!

[ashbypower]

Originally Posted by redcroft

being tethered is - if we are all honest - often restrictive.

With technology and design being so available to just about any sport, hobby or occupation, would not some sort of proximity device be better like that of some modern cars? Your views would be interesting.

Ok been keeping out of this discussion however just a few salient points
Tethered Really ?? a kill cord should NOT tether you its mearly a metnod of throwing a switch!!

Proximity switch a fancy way of remotely throwing a switch..

A kill cord can be left dangling and therfore useless
A Proximity switch can be left in the close proximity i.e. seat base, coat pocket et al and have the same effect as a dangling KC.. FFS people get real. kill cords work... they just have to be used !!

[08087]

Sorry but I'm against gov regulations. Kill cord is a yes but I don't want another level of gov telling me what I can and cannnot do and at what age. I've been using power boats on my own since I was a young teen (13) and I don't want or need the gov to tell me or my children how to operate.

[sinner]

Originally Posted by 08087

Sorry but I'm against gov regulations. Kill cord is a yes but I don't want another level of gov telling me what I can and cannnot do and at what age. I've been using power boats on my own since I was a young teen (13) and I don't want or need the gov to tell me or my children how to operate.

Unfortunately, there are many people who feel the government should have ultimate control over how we live and function in our lives.
In the USA, our declaration of independence says "...endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...", yet we constantly have our government telling us how and to what degree. We even have a United Nations to influence countries in how they should govern themselves. We need to just hold people accountable for their own actions.

"A "reformer" is someone who wants to have their conscience tell others how to live."

[Kraken999]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-22560652

http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/...boat-accident/

" Boat owners are not obliged by law to use a kill cord, but accident investigators hope the case will encourage more of them to do so."

No call for legislation by the MAIB. Yet. Recent threads show it certainly appears to have heightened awareness which with the bravery of the local ski instructor are the only positives to be drawn from such a tragedy.

[BogMonster]

Early days yet though, it is only the preliminary report that has been released.

[Chrisch]

Originally Posted by 08087

Sorry but I'm against gov regulations. Kill cord is a yes but I don't want another level of gov telling me what I can and cannnot do and at what age. I've been using power boats on my own since I was a young teen (13) and I don't want or need the gov to tell me or my children how to operate.

I agree with you in principle 100% However the advantage of a licence for PWC is it can be taken away from those who abuse the privilege.

[IanH]

If the bit about the mother with child on lap is true, and by the looks of the web sites, the wording of 'unnamed driver' does not rule this out, what do people propose for license now.

Assuming that the dead man was not driving, but it is deemed that he was owner and 'in charge', is he the one that should be licensed, his wife or, god forbid, the 4 year old with their hands on the wheel?

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Chrisch

I agree with you in principle 100% However the advantage of a licence for PWC is it can be taken away from those who abuse the privilege.

And who will pay for the Issuing of the licence, the checking of it and the guy who takes it away if you're a bad boy (or girl)?

The list of certificates I need to race a powerboat is getting longer each year, I don't need or want any more thanks!

[frankc]

Thank you for posting the news stories, as they show a boat which should not have been run by anyone without experience. The urge for going fast is a dangerous game not for greenhorns. As the gentleman was prominent with the news, it was given much press coverage which started the kill switch debate.

Had the boat been kept under control, this tragedy would not have happened. I believe you have to look at more than the kill switch to uncover a cause for this accident. A kill switch would have possibly prevented the loss of life, but only after control of the boat was lost.

Should tilt switches be legislated next? Improper trim can cause loss of control at speed in many boats.

This boat is much different than anything I have used over the years as it is just short of a racing rig and not designed to be handled by an amateur. Using this incident as a cry for legislation is a stretch. It is like comparing a fighter aircraft to an airliner and saying both should have all occupants in harnesses at all times during flight. That would be overkill.

You cannot legislate anything enough to prevent all accidents. Look at the many laws regarding automobiles. Have they prevented people from being maimed and killed?

Creating mass hysteria was used by Hitler to create his dynasty, and politicians are very aware that people will throw out common sense with enough publicity on an event. I think this debate falls into that category. Human failure cannot be legislated out of existence.

Kill switches, trim switches or whatever device you want to mention are no value unless someone knows how to use them. It comes down to the responsibility of the person at the helm. Education is a wonderful thing.

[JamesF]

Creating mass hysteria was used by Hitler to create his dynasty...

According to the Irrefutable 2nd Law of the Internet we now have to refrain from any further discussion, because the thread has descended to reductio ad Hitlerum.

[frankc]

Personal responsibility and education will aid in preventing further accidents of this type. No amount of legislation will change human nature I fear, and you are not 100% safe in your own bathtub.

My heart goes out to the family who suffered this loss. What an awful tragedy.

[steco1958]

Originally Posted by Chrisch

I agree with you in principle 100% However the advantage of a licence for PWC is it can be taken away from those who abuse the privilege.

The same as a car, however you are paying through the nose on your insurance for the people that are still driving cars without license or insurance.

Legislation will not work on this !! 1. there are not any checks, 2. dealing with people that probably do not see the danger.

[steco1958]

Originally Posted by frankc

This boat is much different than anything I have used over the years as it is just short of a racing rig and not designed to be handled by an amateur.

I know some very experienced amateurs.

you do not need to be paid to know how to handle a boat !!

[DGR]

Originally Posted by frankc

This boat is much different than anything I have used over the years as it is just short of a racing rig and not designed to be handled by an amateur.

Not really - it'll be a fast boat, but that doesn't mean that the owner couldn't handle it. The issue is that something unexpected happened (i.e. the hull hooked) and a kill cord could have stopped the ensuing tradgedy from occuring.