Cowes - are we welcome?

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by tcwozere

What do you expect when you make comments like the following on a public forum? If any harbour master, (or their friends,) read this forum, then they are going to be even more anti-rib..

I do hope that in the RIB world we haven't got to the stage where you should be afraid to talk about anything.

1984 anyone

[tcwozere]

course not, free speech is important.. As is the way things are tackled.. Nash's original post was the right way to elicit a response, (if he gets one,) calling people names is just gonna piss the guy off..

As you point out,

"The less we do to upset the Harbour Master the better."

I would imagine that includes belittling them publically..

[Biggles]

Unfortunately if they act like it they are going to get called it. I have only had run ins with Chichester harbour Authorities.
No problems at Cowes and certainly I can only praise the ones at Langston.
From my point of view I was always getting told off for speeding and the amount of wash I was producing. This was in a 3.6 meter RIB with a shallow planing hull. When I said I was within the speed limits I was told I was on the plane so I must have been speeding. So much for their knowledge of boating behaviour. And whilst being lectured to by the Harbour Authorities I would notice that countless large motor boats would be speeding by us without anything being said to them.
Really if they have a beef about something then they should act properly and profesionally and use calibrated speed cameras to prosecute. Not just tell people off. Its a very unproffesional way to act. In fact its called oppresive behaviour at a profesional level and any boater would be well within their rights to make a formal complaint. Most people rightly don't make such a fuss because most people just want an easy life.

[JABS]

Originally Posted by Biggles

Really if they have a beef about something then they should act properly and profesionally and use calibrated speed cameras to prosecute. Not just tell people off. Its a very unproffesional way to act. In fact its called bullying at a profesional level and any boater would be well within their rights to make a formal complaint. Most people rightly don't make such a fuss because most people just want an easy life.

I think that may be an issue. If they use a speed gun, how do they prove that they were not moving?? It is all so subjective.

Imagine they are in two knots of current going with the current at one knot, that is three over the ground.

You are doing five knots over the ground upstream, one knot under a six knot limit!

They would read your speed at eight knots!

Explain that in a court of law!

[Biggles]

They use Speed guns in Chichester Harbour from the Harbour Masters Boat. I suppose at Cowes it would be easy enough to use one from the shore. As with everything a bit of lee way would be needed before prosecuting. It is said that the Police use the speed limit plus 10%, before prosecuting. This allows for any discrepancies and also means you should only prosecute the people who are flagrently breaking the limit. It is a sensible way to do it as well.
It is apperent that by telling people off all you do is get there back up for no real reason. Prosecute in a court and theirs no real arguement. Everything has been done properly and anything you wanted to bring in your defence will have been said.

[Rodan]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Google is your friend

http://www.cowes.co.uk/d/Harbour%20Byelaws.pdf

Byelaw 12
Every mechanically propelled vessel navigating the Harbour or Roads shall, unless otherwise authorised by the Harbour Master in writing, be navigated at a speed not exceeding 6 knots over the ground and in a manner which shall not endanger the safety of other vessels boats or property or cause damage thereto.

Every such vessel shall reduce speed as necessary in the observance of the normal practice of safe seamanship when passing mooring trots, boats alongside wharves, jetties, pontoons, vessels engaged in maritime works or in any other circumstances which could endanger the safety of other persons vessels boats or properties or cause damage thereto.

John

6Kts OVER THE GROUND....!

[wavecrosschris]

Originally Posted by Biggles

And whilst being lectured to by the Harbour Authorities I would notice that countless large motor boats would be speeding by us without anything being said to them.

you really don't like anything large white and made of plastic do you!??

[wavecrosschris]

I know you do get a few big motor cruisers that do travel a bit quick and kick up a hell of a wash... BUT I hate to say it - I think the cowes harbour master is picking on ribs for a reason - everytime I go out I get overtaken in 6/8/10knot zones and it's always by ribs that come planing past doing about 15/20knots. Through chichester harbour, portsmouth harbour, up the hamble, most never wait until they are out of marked restrictions before opening up (or shutting down) - and i'm sure it's not anybody who takes the time to read this forum - it's probably the people, as mentioned above who get their boat out on nice sunny days and think they can get away with it. I suspect they don't have gps or speedo - or would claim it doesn't work if stopped. And although it's an absolute fact that traveling in a rib at 20knots produces a fraction of the wake that 8 or 10knots does, it still doesn't change the law. I suppose it's because ribs are very popular now and you get a large cross section of skippers - some who don't mind speeding and giving everyone else a bad name. The harbour master at cowes has obviously been subject to a few bad ribsters in the last month or two!

[The Edges]

Originally Posted by Nasher

Hello all
We went over to the Folly for Lunch on Saturday and for the first time didn’t feel particularly welcome by the Cowes Harbour Authorities.

The big Yellow and Orange Harbour Authority RIB was waiting just inside the harbour flagging down every RIB we saw enter. No other boats, just RIBs as far as we could see.
We were asked politely to keep our speed down and look behind occasionally to check our wake.
Fair enough, but we were doing about 5 knots at the time, following a sailing boat in, but a big 30 foot motor cruiser was overtaking us at probably 10 knots throwing up a huge wash and wasn’t even looked at by the guy in the HA RIB.

At 5 – 6 Knots The Nashers Revenge is only just in gear and does not throw up a big wake, however every Harbour Authority Launch that we passed going up river gestured to us to slow down and made wavy movements at us with their hand to indicate why. Again despite the presence of big motor cruisers going faster than us and throwing up big wakes.

Are they having a crackdown on RIB owners?

Maybe we are getting a bad name like Jet Skiers.
Certainly at work last week one of the directors who is in to Rags and Sticks referred to me as ‘the RIB hooligan’

Nasher.

Point well made
Its the whole approach from officialdom over here that gets me down
On a recent visit to Sydney I was out in the harbour - no limits on speed unless very close to jetties. Common sense prevails. Good, polite signage where required. Its just so much more grown up

[eupa]

Reading all this pathetic dribble - I know why I live in Belgium... It was to be FREE!!!!!!!!

Jonathan

[qcamel]

Originally Posted by eupa

Reading all this pathetic dribble - I know why I live in Belgium... It was to be FREE!!!!!!!!

Jonathan

Agreed, but we are free (ish). The guy is doing his job and acting on instructions from a higher authority I would assume. Right or wrong its unlikely you will ever win the argument so smile and acknowledge, watch your speed and wake and dont worry about other boats whether they be big and white or anything else. Change his opinion by positive reinforcement. All this talk of speed guns and the rest is daft, there are no fines being handed out here just requests to slow down, the fact that the delivery is bad or the facts questionable should not spoil anybodies day.

I would respectfully point out that it would be easier just to get over it and move on.,..

[eupa]

would respectfully point out that it would be easier just to get over it and move on.,

Nicely spoken Ollie.... A man of honor, intellegence and humility ... at last

Jonathan

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by eupa

... at last

Oi! It's what I said pages ago!

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Alternatively we could just get over ourselves and not worry about it too much!

John

[chris123]

Hopefully not a silly question, but how do you know where the speed limit zone starts / ends?

I can see the harbour limits on the charts for Cowes and Poole harbours, so they are easy enough, but what about (for example) Langstone and Chichester harbours? I can't see anything on the charts or find anything in their byelaws (though I may have missed it). I know sometimes (always?) the speed limit is written on the channel markers, but is there a simpler way to know in advance?

Cheers

Chris

[John Kennett]

It's a good question, and the answers aren't always obvious. Sometimes it's clearly marked, sometime it's not. It's often further out than you might think though.

For instance, there's a speed limit of 10 knots within 1,000 yards of the shore in any part of the Dockyard Port of Portsmouth. That's the entire Eastern Solent from Hillhead to Eastney, including the Isle of Wight from Old Castle Point off Cowes, to Sandown Bay! http://www.qhmportsmouth.com/upload/...outh%20map.pdf

I couldn't find the answer for Chichester on their web site. The byelaws refer to a map, but it's not included on the pdf. I suspect that the speed limit officially starts either at the Bar Beacon or at West Pole.

John

[Noddy]

Well on a trip out of Chichester Harbour last summer I got caught speeding by the big black thing crewed by the flourescent jackets. I was as guilty as hell having misunderstood the harbour limit signs. I told them it was a genuine mistake and would not happen again. They were polite, understanding and certainly not overbearing. In fact they even gave me a map of the area and a tide table.
I was a cop once and there were always those that thought "Specials" who were volunteers and unpaid were "uniform carriers" maybe one or two were but the majority did it for the right reasons - contribution to society etc. Hopefully the majority of people doing the job in the solent are also doing the same.
After the accident at the weekend you can see why the idiots have to be regulated.
Martyn

[tcwozere]

Something to ponder about.. Taken from Cowes Harbour Commision Harbour Byelaws.. (Link.)

12. Every mechanically propelled vessel navigating the Harbour or Roads shall, unless otherwise authorised by the Harbour Master in writing, be navigated at a speed not exceeding 6 knots over the ground and in a manner which shall not endanger the safety of other vessels boats or property or cause damage thereto.

And on page 8 of said byelaws..

The Limits of Cowes Harbour and Roads
From a public house called “The Folly" (on the eastern bank of the River Medina) due west to the western bank of the said river thence along the line of high water mark down the western bank of the River Medina and along the harbour to Cowes Castle thence following the line of high water mark along the coast to Egypt Point thence to position Latitude 500 46'16" 9 N. Longitude 010 18'06" W. thence to Prince Consort Shoal Buoy thence to position Latitude 500 46'06" N. Longitude 010 16'31" W. thence in a southerly direction to the shore at the point nearest to the said last mentioned position and thence along the line of high water mark on the eastern bank of the River Medina and along the Harbour to the said public house called "The Folly". So much of the area comprised within the said limits as lies to the southward of a straight line drawn from the outer extremity of Cowes Castle to high water mark at the outer extremity of Old Castle Point East Cowes shall be called the Harbour of Cowes and the remainder of such area shall be called Cowes Roads.

Does this mean the Harbour Master's authority isn't in force between The Folly and Newport? cos there's some nice open stretches of flat river along there..

[Nasher]

I never did get a reply to my polite email.

Its obvious how much they care about the people spending money in Cowes!

Nasher

[Searider]

Originally Posted by Nasher

I never did get a reply to my polite email.

Its obvious how much they care about the people spending money in Cowes!

Nasher

I've had very positive experiences with the Cowes authorities.

My RIB was damaged by one of the water taxis - one of the "Jenny" boats I suspect whilst moored on the Town Quay pontoons during Cowes Week.

I complained to the Harbour Master, by e-mail at about midnight about the incident and received a response by 1000 the following morning indicating that they would "have a word" with the suspect and better supervise the pontoon to improve the situation.

Surprised you haven't heard back.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Searider

I complained to the Harbour Master, by e-mail at about midnight about the incident and received a response by 1000 the following morning indicating that they would "have a word" with the suspect and better supervise the pontoon to improve the situation.

Sorry to be so negative but these days that is a polite way of saying "bugger off we can't be bothered"!!!

Have you noticed that when an official makes a major cock up these days it is never their fault - they either need more training or more funds or they will change their procedures etc.

It was the same in the case of the poor little girl beaten to death because social services didn't do their job properly - at the end of the day someone dropped a bollock and they should be punished for it but they never will.