Dealer or dealer agency and papers needed

[sameh]

Hi people
I am just about to buy a boat from a private seller in fife and importing it to Israel (new developments came out and dropped meanwhile chinese rib i was about to get)

I may need a dealer/boat agency to help with the buying process. Any recommendation for a good dealer/agency in fife?

2. Do you know about ce and certificate of origin papers where can i get it from?

3. Shipping companies around fife (by sea)?

Many thanks
Sameh

[Poly]

Originally Posted by sameh

Hi people
I am just about to buy a boat from a private seller in fife and importing it to Israel (new developments came out and dropped meanwhile chinese rib i was about to get)

I may need a dealer/boat agency to help with the buying process. Any recommendation for a good dealer/agency in fife?

2. Do you know about ce and certificate of origin papers where can i get it from?

3. Shipping companies around fife (by sea)?

Many thanks
Sameh

Mmm... now I don't want to ruin your plans but:

i. I wouldn't expect to find any experts in exporting small recreational boats in Fife, indeed probably in Scotland as a whole. There simply aren't enough boats around and only a tiny fraction will be going overseas.
ii. Boats in the UK come with surprisingly little paperwork, have little in the way of registration and this seems to cause overseas buyers some headaches. If it is the right age the original manufacturer might be able to help with the CE paperwork. Certificate of Origin could be hard work and expensive (especially if someone has to get in legalised at the Chamber of Commerce).
iii. Presumably this would either be in a container or a truck? If a container there is no container terminal in Fife (AFAIK), but their is one just across the Forth in Grangemouth. If it would move across Europe by truck then there is a Freight only ferry from Rosyth to Zeebrugge - the advantage there would be a number of different suppliers might be able to quote, not sure if they go those distances but perhaps try Shiply? If its going by container you might want to try someone like Caledonian Freight Forwarders who are a stone's throw from the container terminal. Personally I might be inclined to use a local agent (i.e. someone in Israel) to coordinate it, as they will be well versed in the import rules which are probably more complex than our export rules.
iv. Are you sure the boat exists?

[beamishken]

The man to contact re boats in Fife would be Davie from the forum he is in Dundee he may be willing to help (if suitably paid for his time) with collection & or evaluation of the boat but no idea if he'd help with the paperwork that's realy a job for a freight forwarder
Peters and may are the biggest boat shipper in the uk they may be able to advise

[ShinyShoe]

Why does this have alarm bells all over it...

Man buys boat from fife to overseas, with a middle man involved in the delivery...?

[Dirk Diggler]

Is CE certification needed for Israel?

Knowing the make of Rib would help.

[sameh]

Originally Posted by Poly

Mmm... now I don't want to ruin your plans but:

i. I wouldn't expect to find any experts in exporting small recreational boats in Fife, indeed probably in Scotland as a whole. There simply aren't enough boats around and only a tiny fraction will be going overseas.
ii. Boats in the UK come with surprisingly little paperwork, have little in the way of registration and this seems to cause overseas buyers some headaches. If it is the right age the original manufacturer might be able to help with the CE paperwork. Certificate of Origin could be hard work and expensive (especially if someone has to get in legalised at the Chamber of Commerce).
iii. Presumably this would either be in a container or a truck? If a container there is no container terminal in Fife (AFAIK), but their is one just across the Forth in Grangemouth. If it would move across Europe by truck then there is a Freight only ferry from Rosyth to Zeebrugge - the advantage there would be a number of different suppliers might be able to quote, not sure if they go those distances but perhaps try Shiply? If its going by container you might want to try someone like Caledonian Freight Forwarders who are a stone's throw from the container terminal. Personally I might be inclined to use a local agent (i.e. someone in Israel) to coordinate it, as they will be well versed in the import rules which are probably more complex than our export rules.
iv. Are you sure the boat exists?

Poly, first of all, thanks a lot for your response..it is clear to me that you have serious knowledge about this issue! you have mentioned very important topics.

Let me put some recent updates i have done and let me hear your opinion know:
first thing: I have received from the seller what is called Declaration of Conformity that was originally provided to the seller when he bought it from the manufacturer. I am checking now locally if this is the needed paper. I believe it is hopefully. I think the boat itself has the tag on the transom as seen in the pictures so it looks that it has been taken care of. is this the part you mentioned that sometimes doesnot exist due to regulations not demanding that? or is there another thing apart from putting the tag on the transom?

I have supported all information to local custom agent who is working on the process now. hopefully would arrange proper pickup and shipping with a good price and then I won't have to deal with that by myself.


as for the boat if it really exist? on papers it does. i have faith in its advertiser, but of course money would be transferred in a way to protect both sides (probably letter of credit-which is bank to back transfer on conditional release of money).

as for agent, i may stop seeking for a broker..i was told by the custom agent here that it is possible also for a private seller to support an invoice.
by the way, any idea how?

anyway, would love your reply based on the new updates...
thanks alot for your support

[sameh]

Originally Posted by beamishken

The man to contact re boats in Fife would be Davie from the forum he is in Dundee he may be willing to help (if suitably paid for his time) with collection & or evaluation of the boat but no idea if he'd help with the paperwork that's realy a job for a freight forwarder
Peters and may are the biggest boat shipper in the uk they may be able to advise

many thanks
with the recent updates i have posted in my previous post it may not be necessary but it may turn to be so..I would love getting his details..is he called in this forum Davie?

[beamishken]

Yes he is an outboards dealer definitely worth a pm to

[sameh]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

Why does this have alarm bells all over it...

Man buys boat from fife to overseas, with a middle man involved in the delivery...?

poly has a point. I know of friends who regretted making the deal because of many regulations that you may not be aware of when closing the deal if not doing basic research. also there are situations of con people who can easily get your money and provide you with nothing..so, ordering a boat when you are not physically at the spot can be dangerous, or at least you would feel many worries..

[sameh]

Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler

Is CE certification needed for Israel?

Knowing the make of Rib would help.

I am checking now what is needed exactly by the Israeli ministry of transportation when it is UK boat. with Chinese boats CE is a demand, or else you may find yourself doing a lot of costly checks to get your boat registered or even not get it licensed at all. here a boat it is like a car, alot of demands

[sameh]

Originally Posted by sameh

I am checking now what is needed exactly by the Israeli ministry of transportation when it is UK boat. with Chinese boats CE is a demand, or else you may find yourself doing a lot of costly checks to get your boat registered or even not get it licensed at all. here a boat it is like a car, alot of demands

one more thing, as there is agreement between euro countries and israel, i will pay less taxes if proving the boat is of European (or american) origin..

[sameh]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Yes he is an outboards dealer definitely worth a pm to

[Andre]

Sameh

if this is not a scam and you have say already paid for the rib then my advice would be to seek the assistance of local shipping agent in Israel. tell him the size and weight of the rib and sellers address and tel number. He will tell you if you need a 20 or 40' container. Your local shipping agent will for sure know a UK forwarder whom he can instruct to collect the rib and ship it to Israel. This way you pay in Israel for the whole shipment.

the complication will be the export documentation as the Seller will have to produce an invoice for export ect ect ect

less complicated would be to buy from a company

[sameh]

Originally Posted by Andre

Sameh

if this is not a scam and you have say already paid for the rib then my advice would be to seek the assistance of local shipping agent in Israel. tell him the size and weight of the rib and sellers address and tel number. He will tell you if you need a 20 or 40' container. Your local shipping agent will for sure know a UK forwarder whom he can instruct to collect the rib and ship it to Israel. This way you pay in Israel for the whole shipment.

the complication will be the export documentation as the Seller will have to produce an invoice for export ect ect ect

less complicated would be to buy from a company

Hi andre
I havenot paid yet. paying should be after all arrangments and just before pickup.
as for your advice, that is what i am doing now indeed. buying from company is easier indeed but you don't get to choose everything

[bedajim]

C. O. O.

We get these from the local chamber of commerce on the equipment we manufacture/sell, we also get the invoices/ delivery notes stamped by the chamber, customs like that.
Cost is normally £100-150
We are registered with the chamber and everything is online, not sure how it works with a private sale?

Not sure if you would also need a EUR1 form

An agent is the way forward

[breezeblock]

this sounds like a headache is there not any dealers in Israel or closer that you could buy a boat from

[Davie]

Oh aye. Anymore details on this? Where was this advertised?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by bedajim

C. O. O.

We get these from the local chamber of commerce on the equipment we manufacture/sell, we also get the invoices/ delivery notes stamped by the chamber, customs like that.
Cost is normally £100-150
We are registered with the chamber and everything is online, not sure how it works with a private sale?

Not sure if you would also need a EUR1 form

An agent is the way forward

Its a while since I've had to do it. But the Certificate of Origin can be done "in person" at the Chambers of Commerce. Tricky bit here, is it is presumably a second hand boat, not sure how the seller can honestly declare its origin. A manufacturer could - but it will cost them and be a hassle and they aren't getting a sale - good luck with that. I don't think there is really any difference between a private individual and sole trader exporting so should be OK. I think our local CoC will deal with non members too - but for a higher cost.

Poly, first of all, thanks a lot for your response..it is clear to me that you have serious knowledge about this issue! you have mentioned very important topics.

well I have exported plenty of odd stuff in the past, but never a boat!

Let me put some recent updates i have done and let me hear your opinion know:
first thing: I have received from the seller what is called Declaration of Conformity that was originally provided to the seller when he bought it from the manufacturer. I am checking now locally if this is the needed paper. I believe it is hopefully.

This proves the boat was "CE marked" when it was made. It is a good sign, but beware a good scam artist will have just the sort of paperwork you want to make it look credible.

I think the boat itself has the tag on the transom as seen in the pictures so it looks that it has been taken care of. is this the part you mentioned that sometimes doesnot exist due to regulations not demanding that? or is there another thing apart from putting the tag on the transom?

well CE marking is required here, but it is not usually actively enforced like some other European countries. Also most British leisure boats are not registered with the government in any way (no number plates etc). That confuses countries where every boat has to be registered, and they get concerned about showing ownership etc.

I have supported all information to local custom agent who is working on the process now. hopefully would arrange proper pickup and shipping with a good price and then I won't have to deal with that by myself.

makes sense - but check what you need to do to register / use the boat once it arrives, the customs agent is only interested in you getting it not using it!

as for the boat if it really exist? on papers it does.

I am not saying it doesn't - but everyone here is thinking it has the hallmarks of a scam. Photos prove little, adverts even less, paperwork is easily faked.

i have faith in its advertiser, but of course money would be transferred in a way to protect both sides (probably letter of credit-which is bank to back transfer on conditional release of money).

this is good, but make sure you understand EXACTLY what criteria the letter of credit releases the money, [and a LOC will cost more money again]. Imagine I go to the superstore and buy a £100 inflatable boat - or some heap of rubbish rib. The container guy turns up, I put it inside and he signs the paperwork - you can't expect the shipper to be accountable for the accuracy or quality. I think you will also struggle to get most sellers to hand over the boat without cleared funds in their hands - a LOC might work, if the seller trusts you (why would he) and understands the process (its very much a specialist business-business export thing that most people don't understand).

In fact just getting COO, LOC, and even Commercial Invoices (which anyone can prepare), and possibly translation is an excercise most UK businesses are not that familiar unless they sell outside the EU - and even then often only high value transactions to some of the more unusual countries in the world. Wait two years and we'll all know though!

as for agent, i may stop seeking for a broker..i was told by the custom agent here that it is possible also for a private seller to support an invoice.
by the way, any idea how?

anyway, would love your reply based on the new updates...
thanks alot for your support[/quote]

[69cmw]

Originally Posted by Davie

Oh aye. Anymore details on this? Where was this advertised?

www.ripmeoff.com

[sameh]

Originally Posted by Poly

Its a while since I've had to do it. But the Certificate of Origin can be done "in person" at the Chambers of Commerce. Tricky bit here, is it is presumably a second hand boat, not sure how the seller can honestly declare its origin. A manufacturer could - but it will cost them and be a hassle and they aren't getting a sale - good luck with that. I don't think there is really any difference between a private individual and sole trader exporting so should be OK. I think our local CoC will deal with non members too - but for a higher cost.

well I have exported plenty of odd stuff in the past, but never a boat!
This proves the boat was "CE marked" when it was made. It is a good sign, but beware a good scam artist will have just the sort of paperwork you want to make it look credible.
well CE marking is required here, but it is not usually actively enforced like some other European countries. Also most British leisure boats are not registered with the government in any way (no number plates etc). That confuses countries where every boat has to be registered, and they get concerned about showing ownership etc.
makes sense - but check what you need to do to register / use the boat once it arrives, the customs agent is only interested in you getting it not using it!
I am not saying it doesn't - but everyone here is thinking it has the hallmarks of a scam. Photos prove little, adverts even less, paperwork is easily faked. this is good, but make sure you understand EXACTLY what criteria the letter of credit releases the money, [and a LOC will cost more money again]. Imagine I go to the superstore and buy a £100 inflatable boat - or some heap of rubbish rib. The container guy turns up, I put it inside and he signs the paperwork - you can't expect the shipper to be accountable for the accuracy or quality. I think you will also struggle to get most sellers to hand over the boat without cleared funds in their hands - a LOC might work, if the seller trusts you (why would he) and understands the process (its very much a specialist business-business export thing that most people don't understand).

In fact just getting COO, LOC, and even Commercial Invoices (which anyone can prepare), and possibly translation is an excercise most UK businesses are not that familiar unless they sell outside the EU - and even then often only high value transactions to some of the more unusual countries in the world. Wait two years and we'll all know though!

as for agent, i may stop seeking for a broker..i was told by the custom agent here that it is possible also for a private seller to support an invoice.
by the way, any idea how?

anyway, would love your reply based on the new updates...
thanks alot for your support

[/QUOTE]
Why you say everybody thinks it is a scam? Based on what?