Disastrous start with new boat, need some advice.

[John Kennett]

Hold your horses Boris! He's apparently already been offered a full refund.

[kerny]

Simon,you express that you genuinely feel hurt at what has been written about you. What about your customers ?? I bet a lot of them feel hurt too.

You now slag off this Chinese boat company that you dealt with but they were the dogs dangle's when you was selling them.

After spending over 8k on the first Chinese rib from you 4 years back I only had it on the water 3 times in over 12 months and that was my first boating summer gone. I was not a happy chappy so you said that you would get another one to replace it which was an Egyptian made dive rib, much better quality you said and it would cost me an extra 500 quid because this one was a 5 metre not 4.7 so I went along with that and waited for weeks if not months for it to be ready...

Then I got it home.... I trimmed the engine up to put it in the garage and the transom cracked.... it had never seen water that was the last straw Simon another boat not fit for purpose and that's why I demanded my money back.

I do not think that I am out of order sharing my views on here and yes you did give me full refund and I even put a post up on here saying hats off to you for doing that.

But since then, to many people have come on here asking for advice after having bad dealings with you and two of them I corresponded to them by PM only not on the open forum.

But after seeing that engine respray and talk of cutting down the transom I couldn't hold back any more.

p.s. If you look back on this thread I did mention that I thought that you might have got a bit better after you had been dealing with ribs for a few years.

[mick]

Looks like Humber are next in the firing line looking at Nugents thread

[SteveHall]

I would be returning it!


Sent from my iPhone using RIB Net

[poulner6]

I run a very successful business for over 12 years in engineering supplies, but taking a kicking from a forum that is dedicated to Rib's, I find it very hard for anybody in the know to be looking for a rib will be purchasing one from Bill Higham Marine, I'm sorry to say but running a business these days is very hard, and neg feedback like this will hurt any trading company at present, I to looked into buying a Sea Pro package, but I had to judge this company by forums, etc and my money went elsewhere. I'm sorry to advise but, Customer service is number one in my company always has and always will.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by poulner6

I run a very successful business for over 12 years in engineering supplies, but taking a kicking from a forum that is dedicated to Rib's, I find it very hard for anybody in the know to be looking for a rib will be purchasing one from Bill Higham Marine, I'm sorry to say but running a business these days is very hard, and neg feedback like this will hurt any trading company at present, I to looked into buying a Sea Pro package, but I had to judge this company by forums, etc and my money went elsewhere. I'm sorry to advise but, Customer service is number one in my company always has and always will.

+1 You're only as good as your last job You only rip people off once.

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by poulner6

I run a very successful business for over 12 years in engineering supplies, but taking a kicking from a forum that is dedicated to Rib's, I find it very hard for anybody in the know to be looking for a rib will be purchasing one from Bill Higham Marine, I'm sorry to say but running a business these days is very hard, and neg feedback like this will hurt any trading company at present, I to looked into buying a Sea Pro package, but I had to judge this company by forums, etc and my money went elsewhere. I'm sorry to advise but, Customer service is number one in my company always has and always will.

Me too ... I'm sure you've been one of my suppliers at some point poulner6

I'm completely amazed at how much shite, punters endure in this trade of boats. Ofcourse there are good suppliers, but there is also huge complacency in customers who accept poor service because they dont know any better. This is why this forum is so important in being a platform to educate buyers, and enlighten sellers, and the other way around.

I too have had my fair share of troubles, some have been handled well, and some not so, but, I have no doubt, the exposure here, has made a difference to my own predicaments. So I think any service provider worth their salt should do more to monitor forums, as they are a barometer for some, who don't wish to complain, or make a nuisance, because they prefer not to be antagonistic .. and sadly, thats what allows some unscrupulous suppliers to get away with what they do..

[poulner6]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

Me too ... I'm sure you've been one of my suppliers at some point poulner6

I'm completely amazed at how much shite, punters endure in this trade of boats. Ofcourse there are good suppliers, but there is also huge complacency in customers who accept poor service because they dont know any better. This is why this forum is so important in being a platform to educate buyers, and enlighten sellers, and the other way around.

I too have had my fair share of troubles, some have been handled well, and some not so, but, I have no doubt, the exposure here, has made a difference to my own predicaments. So I think any service provider worth their salt should do more to monitor forums, as they are a barometer for some, who don't wish to complain, or make a nuisance, because they prefer not to be antagonistic .. and sadly, thats what allows some unscrupulous suppliers to get away with what they do..

So true, if any of my staff fail to adhere to MY company policy, do they get a kicking, it's not there baby that gets put down, it has taken me 12 years to put my company where it is today, and it can take 5 mins for someone to put you back down again. If you have used my company I thank you for your services, and hope it was a service you was pleased with, maybe look forward to speaking again.

Jason

[mick]

Like you all say I have been doing my job for 20 plus years have never advertised most of my work comes word of mouth
It doesn't take long for a bad news to travel these days with forums & face book you have to be on the ball a the time.

[simonhigham]

thanks for the welcome john kennett.
this honestly this feels like a witch hunt. it has only upset me so much as i work so hard to keep all people who deal with us happy.
i would just like to make a plain and open offer to ANY customer of mine who has a genuine grievance to please call me and air it. i will never shirk my responsibility, we are human beings and human beings sometimes make mistakes. but i will always be accountable as i have been with chris who started this thread.
finally i would like to apologise to andy hadden who i wrongly accused of being part of this witch hunt. sorry andy, i hope the ribcraft is going well!
best regards to all (including the hunters)
simon higham
bill higham marine

[martini]

Going back to the original post, would Simon confirm whether or not he did offer to cut down the transom on this new inflatable to accommodate the short shaft motor?

[simonhigham]

Originally Posted by martini

Going back to the original post, would Simon confirm whether or not he did offer to cut down the transom on this new inflatable to accommodate the short shaft motor?

hi martini
inflatable boats have a solid marine plywood transom, they are shaped during manufacture to accept either a short or long shaft engine, then they have a rubber covering strip glued over the top once the job is finished.
what we have done in the past for customers who want a 15" transom on a 20" boat is to shorten the transom thus:
peel back the rubber cap, measure and cut the plywood transom down to size allowing for side to side movement of the engine, it is important to have smooth curves at the stress points, then re-seal the capping to make water tight and fit a stainless steel plate across the centre where the engine sits. this has 2 benefits
1. the customer can use their short shaft engine
2. there is less torque imparted on the transom for the same hp due to a lesser moment from the shaft length. so in effect it is stronger and safer.
this is a quick, easy, efficient job which when finished and sealed properly gives a boat which is exactly the same as one made direct from the factory in short shaft. except to finish ours we put a stainless plate over the top which is the part that gets the most wear so lasts a lot longer.
i would add one caveat in that it is first important to know how much freeboard is available when the engine is fitted and the boat is loaded with the maximum weight it is rated to. in the case of the 430HD seapro this is 8 adults - so max 1 ton. with this weight and an outboard there is still 10" freeboard at the stern with the 15" transom as the boat is so beamy. And this boat is generally made in short shaft straight from the factory so we know beyond equivocation that it is safe from a buoyancy point.
final word of warning: this is a very easy job compared to shortening the shaft on a fibreglass transom - as the fibreglass adds strength to the transom it should only be undertaken by a boatbuilder or professional.
if anybody is interested i can post images on how the marine ply transom is properly shortened along with some after shots.
best
simon

[Mollers]

Simon, you could not dig a bigger hole for yourself with a swing shovel.


Telling Martini how a transom is built and how to chop it, is tantamount to telling Granny how to drop her falsies into a glass of Sterident.

You're not dealing with 'no nothing' punters here. If I were you, I'd get on yer trick cycle and back peddle the f'k out of here.

[tonto]

Originally Posted by simonhigham

what we have done in the past for customers who want a 15" transom on a 20" boat is to shorten the transom thus:


this has 2 benefits

1. the customer can use their short shaft engine

2. there is less torque imparted on the transom for the same hp due to a lesser moment from the shaft length. so in effect it is stronger and safer.

this is a quick, easy, efficient job which when finished and sealed properly gives a boat which is exactly the same as one made direct from the factory in short shaft.

Just from reading the posts on here, the OP said that you supplied the engine as well. If the boat was built with 20" transom, why not supply a long shaft motor, or did the OP specifically request a short shaft?

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by tonto

Just from reading the posts on here, the OP said that you supplied the engine as well. If the boat was built with 20" transom, why not supply a long shaft motor, or did the OP specifically request a short shaft?

....& why not do all the magic transom butchery before fobbing it off onto the client??


Scent from my iBone sow iguana any typos whore bed spillings

[Chris A]

Originally Posted by tonto

Just from reading the posts on here, the OP said that you supplied the engine as well. If the boat was built with 20" transom, why not supply a long shaft motor, or did the OP specifically request a short shaft?

I enquired about the Seapro HD 430 and a suitable outboard, and that was the recommended package put together for me... I was told it's a good buy as short shafts 2 stroke in that HP range is hard to get. I went with it based on their professional recommendation as an ideal package.

[simonhigham]

i refuse to get into this slanging match
i was asked how it would be done, i answered without bias or malice
if you wish to continue with this acid tone i will not reply to you
to answer your questions:
Tonto:
the reason the transom was not altered before the customer collected is 2 fold:
1. this was a brand new batch of boats and this being the first out we did not realise that they had been made with long shaft transom
2. if the shaft length had been ascertained first we could have offered chris the option of either a long shaft or a short shaft after the transom was altered (some prefer the shorter shaft so that the engine more easily fits in the boot)
Pikey Dave:
i don't think thats a fair comment so i will not answer that. i am not in the business of trying to fob people off with anything
Chris:
short shaft is best if its going in your boot, so i would still stand by that. also the boat should have been short shaft, not long shaft.

i hope this clears things up

best
simon

[Landlockedpirate]

Originally Posted by simonhigham

i refuse to get into this slanging match

simon

Welcome to the internet

I have been using your company since the 90's and have always been happy with your work and the parts supplied, without your help, advice and families encyclopedic knowledge of ageing 2 strokes I would have been a lot worse off. I said this right at the start of my post on this thread in your support.

Its good that you have decided to stick your head up on here and your apparant offer of a full refund to the OP is a step towards repairing your name.

The problem is that you even sent out this package in the 1st place, especially with a newbie.

I dont know what level of 'respray' you offered the OP, but the standard of work on the engine is appaling. You say it was a new sprayer that did the work, in that case you need to look very carefully at your recruitment systems and even more importantly your quality control checks. How any one could think that respray was acceptable is beyond words and to let it leave the church is asking for trouble and damage to your reputation.

The lack of knowledge of the boat you sold is even more worrying. You are a big importer and seller of these inflatable boats, how could you not know what the transom size is ?!? Surely you have a PDI system in place, or do you just stick a new label on the unopened box and post it on to the new owner without even checking ?

Your reasons for using a short shaft engine are sound, but its not a justification for letting your apprentice loose with a jigsaw and a tube of silkaflex on the transom. And lets face it, having seen the work on the engine, I doubt the transom would have been any better. If you supply a boat with a long shaft transom, you should supply a long shaft engine, simples. Offering to cut the transom down and then trying to justify it makes you look like a cowboy. People chop (Or build up) transoms out of desperation on knackered projects, not on new sibs supplied by a main dealer.

If you want to come out of this with any respect from Ribnet you need to accept your cockups, make it right for the OP and learn from your mistakes. I have no desire to see your company in difficulty, we need to keep operations like yours going for the good of the pastime, but the internet is a powerful medium and you need to get ahead of this, rather than making excuses for work that cant be excused.

Finally I know that I'm just a faceless name on a forum, but I used to own a business that your family used on a daily basis, if they ever complained about a genuine problem (which they quite rightly did from time to time) I would do everything in my power to put it right and as a result you continued to be my customer. Own up to the mistakes, put it right and move on.

[thomas]

Originally Posted by simonhigham

i refuse to get into this slanging match

Sorry, but you have to stand up and take the flogging, I admire you for having the courage to come on here and save face but you sold a boat to someone inexperienced without even knowing if it was seaworthy, in this instance it's been really inconvenient and you've put your customer in an awkward situation, you could have put him in a dangerous one.

This thread will have done you a huge favour, a tiny proportion of your customers or potential customers will see what's been put on here so doubt you'll loose much business from it, but having this issue brought to your attention will enable you to improve procedures and offer a better service in the future.

[Chris A]

Hi there Simon.

Since you respond on here so will I.

Originally Posted by simonhigham

the 430HD is built with a short transom, however, our latest batch have been made with long transom by mistake, the first we knew of this was your boat

Bill Highman said to me over the phone there was some boats made for the RNLI with long transom as they use long shaft engines and I must have gotten one of them or are they made by mistake as you state? You mention latest batch, but when I talked to you over the phone about having the sib with the alloy bow section as you state on your website that "all other inflatable boat manufacturers cheat with the front part and make it from wood" you said to me thats old stock as all new sibs comes with a wooden bow section as the alloy bow section causes damage to the tubes, so how is this the latest batch as mine have alloy bow section? Oh, and thanks for knowingly selling me a sib with a problem part known to cause damage.

Originally Posted by simonhigham

with regard to the engine paint job, we have recently taken on a new spray man, this is unacceptable paint finish and he will be addressed about it.

Sorry, I dont buy that. I am no painting expert but when I wanted to see the engine running in your tank I was told it was just painted that morning. It's sprayed over the greased areas in some places, wipe the grease off and theres no paint underneath. That clearly tells me the engine was put together, greased up etc and then painted last. It's not just the painter that did a sub standard job but your whole process and management of it. Do you not quality check products before leaving the shop? I find it difficult to believe that at no point any member of staff raised concern about the low standard of the finished product or is stuff like that considered normal/acceptable in your company?


I believe an honest mistake re the transom/engine choice could have been made which is totally acceptable as we are only human beings as you state. However you are talking in circles and does not take away from the issues re the poor paint, quality control and total misleading and dishonest selling. Why when I first ask a member of staff what I get in the package the bow bag and seat bag are included. And then when I get the box thats been opened those items according to you are sold separately? Thats just trying to rip the customer for more money!

I am sorry but this is like adding salt to injury, you are here in defence accusing the members on here giving their opinion as a witch hunt as if you are the victim now. When I first saw you posted I thought you were a real gent, manning up to your companies unprofessional service to me but in my opinion your intent is damage control.

I'll not discuss this matter further on here as my intention was never to start a witch hunt as you call it, it was simply to ask for advice which the members on here kindly gave me. I am getting my money back so I am satisfied with the outcome from you, thank you.

Regards.