Disposal of expired flares

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by willk

*But ask JK the same question for the craic - he's a Pyromanic!

I have absolutely no problem with letting off handheld red flares and orange smokes somewhere where they will not be confused with a distress signal, and in a way that they are not going to endanger people or property.

I've let off dozens and dozens of them without any issues, but if you're not confident that you can do it without causing problems then don't.

Parachute flares are a different order of challenge though as they are vastly more visible and much more likely to cause a false alarm. They fire a projectile that burns all the way to the ground, making them significantly more hazardous than hand held items. I've seen them used but have never let one off myself, and there aren't many places where it could be done sensibly.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Poly

I dare say that Willk's alternative argument that testing a flare in controlled environment was not irresponsible

We were pretty careful - leather gloves, safety goggles, fire extinguishers, bucket of sand

[lakelandterrier]

[QUOTE=JParachute flares are a different order of challenge though as they are vastly more visible and much more likely to cause a false alarm..... significantly more hazardous than hand held items. I've seen them used but have never let one off myself, and there aren't many places where it could be done sensibly.[/QUOTE]

I've fired many, many parachute flares in my time- mainly of of the "para-illum white" military versions on exercis. Absolutely no problem as long as you follow the instructions.....although there the chap who had it the wrong way round and fired it downwards - very nasty burns

I agree firing a red para-illum is not the same as providing white light for risk of using an unnecessary alarm,-but there's nothing particularly scary about using them.

LT

[Hf500]

I have discussed this with a coastguard sector manager who advises it is illegal to set of distress flares. The MCA will prosecute and there have been convictions at court. I can't be bothered checking online ( why would he lie about it ) but seems about right to me. Same as a hoax 999call.
If it costs 0-£1.50 to dispose of them anything else seems irresponsible at best.

[Hf500]

Distress does not include white ones but if you are going to fire them 'for training' notify the cg first and don't do it near aircraft obviously

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Hf500

I have discussed this with a coastguard sector manager who advises it is illegal to set of distress flares. I can't be bothered checking online ( why would he lie about it ) but seems about right to me. Same as a hoax 999call.
If it costs 0-£1.50 to dispose of them anything else seems irresponsible at best.

Except that whilst HMRC repeatedly state that they consistently fail to point to any law other the Merchant Shipping Act which only applies at Sea. Don't get me wrong setting off flares near the coast or anywhere else they might get mistaken for a distress signal is stupid, selfish, and possibly should be illegal.

Hoax calls are normally pursued under communications act - requiring "electronic communication". There are also specific offences for fire services, bomb threats, and common law offences of wasting police time...

firing parachute flares in built up areas (or areas of dry woodland etc) could be the offence of culpable and reckless conduct where it applies (and similar in other jurisdictions), and of course even the Merchant Shipping Act doesn't apply in Eire.

[Hf500]

So it's still irresponsible?

[jambo]

Originally Posted by Hf500

So it's still irresponsible?

I agree with you 100%[emoji106]

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by Hf500

I have discussed this with a coastguard sector manager who advises it is illegal to set of distress flares.

Only where it causes a false alarm. Letting off a flare in a location where it can't be misconstrued as a distress signal and doesn't cause any other nuisance is no more illegal than standing in your garden raising and lowering your arms.

The MCA will prosecute and there have been convictions at court. I can't be bothered checking online ( why would he lie about it )

Because they want to discourage people and it's a simpler message.

If it costs 0-£1.50 to dispose of them anything else seems irresponsible at best.

Which is fine. Like I said before, you should only consider doing it if you're confident that you can do so safely.

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by lakelandterrier

I've fired many, many parachute flares in my time- mainly of of the "para-illum white" military versions on exercis. Absolutely no problem as long as you follow the instructions.....although there the chap who had it the wrong way round and fired it downwards - very nasty burns

There's definitely scope to do a lot more damage if you get it wrong with one of these than with a hand held flare. I know someone who fired one upside down in his RIB and was very lucky to get away with it!

I agree firing a red para-illum is not the same as providing white light for risk of using an unnecessary alarm,-but there's nothing particularly scary about using them.

Aside from causing a false alarm, the other critical difference is that red parachute flares have a longer burn time than white illuminating flares (40 vs 30 seconds). Illuminating flares burn out before they they reach the ground, but red flares don't.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Hf500

So it's still irresponsible?

What is? Those were your words not mine. I think my post is quite clear doing it where it will be interpreted as a distress call or where it will likely cause a fire is just plain stupid. But I can see situations where it's not likely to result in harm.

[Hf500]

Maybe everybody out there who has never set off a flare should have a wee practice , just in case.
I've never pressed the red DSC button or set off an Epirb so maybe we should all have a practice ...just in case. I will let the coastguard know first cos that's responsible.
The MCA , The RNLI , The Police , and in some cases the courts have said don't.
I guess though that's for everybody except responsible people ?
You require a license to dispose of the things because they are dangerous. They can cause horrendous burns , set fire to land , trees , property etc etc ( they are designed for over water )
Surely the guidelines / laws apply to us all ? Yet people , it would appear , don't want to make arrangements to leave with CG , who I have learned on here will in some cases arrange to dispose of them. Or we can pay £1.50 a flare at a chandlers.
Really ??
Good luck with it all everybody. For all those who 'do it responsibly ' ... Just why ? I am sure no responsible person has ever got it wrong.

Just remember , your responsible actions may be witnessed by somebody miles away who makes the phone call. The cost of a helicopter / lifeboat / police / cliff rescue etc being actioned is way more than £1.50 and can divert them from those who may genuinely need them. God forbid it's you.

I've had my burst , I shall leave you to it

[willk]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

is no more illegal than standing in your garden raising and lowering your arms.

Now there's a bit of good news. I've had Missus willk out in the orchard for two weeks now keeping the bullfinches off my apple buds....

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Hf500

Maybe everybody out there who has never set off a flare should have a wee practice , just in case.

certainly - the Rya used to do this on sea survival courses specifically for this reason... I am not sure if they still do?

I've never pressed the red DSC button

Responsible vhf owners do a course where they have to press the red button so they know what they are doing!

or set off an Epirb so maybe we should all have a practice ...just in case.

when I did my pb2 some years ago, when plbs were pretty new the school had a demo one for exactly this reason.

and in some cases the courts have said don't.

can you actually provide any thing to back that up (other than the MCGA anecdotes)? It's been discussed here and elsewhere several times before and nobody has ever found a case of prosecution away from the sea.

Surely the guidelines / laws apply to us all ?

well are they guidelines or laws? Laws apply to everyone, guidelines apply to anyone who wants to follow them...

Yet people , it would appear , don't want to make arrangements to leave with CG , who I have learned on here will in some cases arrange to dispose of them.

I am sure it costs the cg more than 1.50 to manage them so that is money we are all saved!

Or we can pay £1.50 a flare at a chandlers.

if you are buying replacements - as others have said in 2017 they may not be

Just remember , your responsible actions may be witnessed by somebody miles away who makes the phone call.

I'm not sure how they could be. By definition, someone doing it responsibly would not be in a location where it would be overseen or easily confused with a distress. I think you are getting wound up because you want to be, because nobody has suggested setting them off at a beach party.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Hf500

I've never pressed the red DSC button or set off an Epirb so maybe we should all have a practice ...

Both of those devices have a test facility to allow you to practice
I live as far as it's possible to be from the coast in the U.K. I.e. 60 miles. I bought my last set of pyros via mail order, they were delivered by a specialist carrier. I don't have a "local" coast guard/RNLI/chandler. I can't take them to the tip, it would be easier to get rid of Herpes, ergo I let them off on bonfire night. Is that irresponsible? You tell me

[Bern Hanreck]

I sincerely hope all you " holier than thou " jocks have never " handled a salmon suspiciously "

The UK’s strangest laws that are still enforced | The Independent

I let off a batch of recently out of date smoke flares some time ago ( Nov 5th ) and was troubled by their failure rate and the spray of incendiary-type particles that came away when they did work . As a direct result of that trial , I took a lot more care my pyrotechnics during their lifetime ( eg NOT leaving them on the boat in a damp , condensation prone console ).

If the " s***e ever really did hit the fan " , I guess I would not be too concerned about scorch marks on my tubes or decking , but at least I would be prepared for it !

I have also let of parachute flares on Nov 5th , raining at time at ground sodden from previous rain . I did this well away from any habitation or buildings . They worked really well ! Lit the ground up at 1000 ft ? Useful practice for me . No lifeboats turned up.....

[jambo]

Originally Posted by Bern Hanreck

I sincerely hope all you " holier than thou " jocks have never " handled a salmon suspiciously "



The UKâ€[emoji769]s strangest laws that are still enforced | The Independent



I let off a batch of recently out of date smoke flares some time ago ( Nov 5th ) and was troubled by their failure rate and the spray of incendiary-type particles that came away when they did work . As a direct result of that trial , I took a lot more care my pyrotechnics during their lifetime ( eg NOT leaving them on the boat in a damp , condensation prone console ).



If the " s***e ever really did hit the fan " , I guess I would not be too concerned about scorch marks on my tubes or decking , but at least I would be prepared for it !



I have also let of parachute flares on Nov 5th , raining at time at ground sodden from previous rain . I did this well away from any habitation or buildings . They worked really well ! Lit the ground up at 1000 ft ? Useful practice for me . No lifeboats turned up.....

I maybe wrong but this 'holier jock' answer to help someone dispose of his flares thru CG. I also said that its my opinion that they should be disposed of responsibly.

[Bern Hanreck]

That's true enough St. Jambo ...............but you have said it four times on the same thread.......

[jambo]

And as a member of RNLI I will say it again!!!

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by jambo

I also said that its my opinion that they should be disposed of responsibly.

And that's something we all agree on. Luckily there are enough ways to dispose of them responsibly that everyone can find a way that they are happy with.