Dive Clubs; Reclaiming VAT on fuel

Simon B · 23 March 2005, 13:15

Any divers out there currently reclaiming VAT paid fuel? I am looking for info on the club side of things rather than commercial ventures.

Andy · 23 March 2005, 14:21

Have I missed a trick ... why do you think we can claim VAT back for Club diving?

Simon B · 23 March 2005, 14:31

Some people are doing it, hence the post. Tried searchig BSACs site but their search function wasnt working to well.

Andy · 23 March 2005, 14:45

have you asked the inland revenue?

RIVA · 23 March 2005, 15:09

try this

Simon B · 23 March 2005, 17:13

Cheers Riva,

Jackwabbit · 23 March 2005, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIVA

try this

Am I reading the link right?
Looking at that all dive clubs should be able to claim back the duty on their fuel for up to 3 years, over the last year we have used about £500 worth of fuel.

thorper · 24 March 2005, 09:13

Can you point out which section means clubs can claim money back? The way I read it pleasure craft (which includes diving) are excluded.

Ricky

Pete7 · 24 March 2005, 09:24

Thats the way I read it as well. Although interestingly enough anyone helping QHM on the fleet review looks like they might have a case.

If the dive boat is acting as a safety boat for shore diving then thats not that far removed from acting in support of dinghies etcpurely for safety. However if your using the rib as a means of transporting club divers out to a wreck for a jolly then it looks like your on a hiding to nothing.

Perhaps ring the helpline for clarification,

Pete

andyace · 24 March 2005, 10:44

The vat advice centre said
It is perfectly ok for an amateur dive club to reclaim all vat and excise on all fuel used in the pursuit of diving.
So get your EX50 or HO50 forms and get claiming..........

http://www.hmce.gov.uk/channelsPorta...HMCE_CL_000324

National Advice Service is 0845 010 9000.

AndyP

thorper · 24 March 2005, 10:49

Ok sounds good. Does anyone know who is entitled to the money ? Is it the people that paid for the fuel (we usually split the cost between the divers) or must it go to the club?

Ricky

pettal · 24 March 2005, 11:07

If you've all split the money and no one up until now is missing it then I'd be inclinded to plough it back into the club.....maybe help buy a new boat in a few years!

Jackwabbit · 24 March 2005, 11:08

The way I was looking at it was all club dive boats are used as safety boats in one form or another.
We have over the last few years been called upon by the police & coastguard to assist when someone was threatening to jump off Seaford Head. We have also rescued other boats in difficulty & assisted the life boat at Selsey when someone ran aground, not to mention the kids that have drifted out on inflatable toys.
I’m sure we are not the only club to have had these situations, therefore I thing they should pay us every time we go out

(now wouldn’t that be nice?)

tim griffin · 24 March 2005, 11:13

Don't for get you can claim back the duty paid on the fuel up to three years in arrears but you may have to provide receipts current level is .47p per litre unless its changed?. You will have to go back and see how much it has been raised during the last 3 years and submit a seperate HO50 form for each year at the correct level of duty or they send it back to you. Re the Trafalgar event if you are providing safety cover then you can claim it back how ever i thought QHM was providing you with fuel so they would be claiming it back for themselves.

thorper · 24 March 2005, 12:22

Ok I just had a conversation with someone at the VAT centre who said we CAN'T claim it back... we had a productive conversation, out of which came a few points:

1) Club diving (ie. club members load up and go diving) is pleasure boating - therefore not exempt (there are semantics around the boat being used for safety, but the main purpose is pleasure). Club diving (or the way that we do it) is not commercial.

1.1) If the operation is commercial in any way then you can claim
1.2) Customs were not really aware of the boating requirements for commercial use of a boat (coding, HSE etc). My assumption is that to qualify as commercial use, you will need to be taking money, and therefore have your boat kitted accordingly (I imagine most club ribs wont be coded)

2) If the boat is being used for the sole purpose of safety (e.g. yacht safety boat) then you can claim duty back for those trips

3) We agreed it could be a bit ambiguous at times, however you are liable for prosecution if you claim and they determine at a later date that you were not allowed to

4) The best option to test the waters is to make individual requests outlining your specific scenario. Customs & Excise will make a decision and give you a written response, which you can then use to legally claim duty back (assuming they approved of course!). By doing it on a case by case basis we have the best chance of getting it right.

Personally I think going diving with your mates is pleasure, and the safety boat arguement is not valid.

Ricky

Jackwabbit · 24 March 2005, 12:39

Typical someone has just realised they might have to pay some of the lovely tax back, they must have gone into panic mode to back peddle-that fast.
Shame! it was nice to live in fantasy land for a while

Simon B · 24 March 2005, 13:59

At the risk of inflaming the red diesel argument you might expect there to be a level playing field...err right! Dive boat owned and run to help divers with their sport is pleasure so is running a monster gin palace on red diesel.

The revenue generated by both is different allowing the same breaks for both would be nice, however, we appear to have a government hell bent on all pursuits regarded as elitist and they wish to tax them out of existence.

I've nasty feeling red diesel for pleasure boating may get shafted (in the end) VAT on dive club petrol isnt a vote winner and dive clubs pitching in to help (Carlisle floods etc) seems to be expected even though BSAC rules prevent any "for hire or reward" work that is covered under comercial diving rules.

Next question would be to me anyway, might a dive club want to code its boats and then run them as a small company? yes skippers would have to be qualified etc and coding costs but if a dive club went to a charter company for say some hardboat diving they might moan if he said "I'm not coded and by the way I'm not a qualified skipper"

Our club is going for CASC status this year to help with tax reclaim and we also looking at tax reclaim on fuel if the rewards are there we will pursue it so the future of the club is better financially.

andyace · 24 March 2005, 21:08

Typically, Her majestys tax officers are as useful as ever. The lady i spoke to didnt hesitate to advise that reclaiming duty for fuel used on an amateur dive club boat was completely legitimate.
However I will contact the Adjudicator, whose services are free, and who is a fair and unbiased referee "apparently", and whose recommendations are independent of Customs and Excise.

The Adjudicator's Office
Haymarket House
28 Haymarket
LONDON
SW1Y 4SP
Phone: (020) 7930 2292
Fax: (020) 7930 2298
E-mail: adjudicators@gtnet.gov.uk
Internet: http://www.adjudicatorsoffice.gov.uk/index.htm

And get a final decision on Tuesday.

We worked out we can claim back nearly 2 grand !!!!!

AndyP

Pete7 · 24 March 2005, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyace

And get a final decision on Tuesday.

Good man

Quote:

We worked out we can claim back nearly 2 grand !!!!!

That will be a bit of an incentive then

Pete

Rupert Bear · 29 March 2005, 13:34

I read the document posted and can't see how anyone would think it was legal to claim back VAT on a club boat, even though it would be nice!