Do I need a Bilge pump please?

[jeffstevens763@g]

your in a rib the tube coller will keep you afloat if the transoms off nowt will help only the tube coller, if swamped trunks are best to get rid fairly quickly i carry a collapsible bucket just in case, you need a big bilge pump to beat a trunk worth having though for ease and if you buy auto great whilst on a mooring.IMO

[mikew4]

Originally Posted by mikehhogg

consider this scenario . you have just hit something submerged underwater, prop is totalled and there is a crack in the transom,water is seeping in , waiting for help. What do you do.Milk carton wont last long.its amazing that people will spend thousands on a fish finder and want to use a milk carton in an emergency.

Even if that happens, the rib still won't sink. Also, an unlikely event.

Nevertheless, bilge pump is convenient along with the trunks. I also keep a builders bucket on board - handy as a litter bin, rope store and doubles up as an emergency bailer if ever needed.

[mikew4]

Originally Posted by mikehhogg

an average of 1390 forty foot containers go missing from ships every year. some sink some float just below the surface.I have seen boat transoms ripped clean and clear from boats after fouling nets\buoys etc. at speed. Look at what washed up on our shores after being lost at sea by US Navy a few years ago. The threat of water ingress is very real and it would be very foolish not to be prepared to deal with it.



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...land-1.4007521

If you lose your transom, a bilge pump wont be of much use !.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by mikehhogg

consider this scenario . you have just hit something submerged underwater, prop is totalled and there is a crack in the transom,water is seeping in , waiting for help. What do you do.Milk carton wont last long.its amazing that people will spend thousands on a fish finder and want to use a milk carton in an emergency.

It was a tongue in cheek answer, but if you like you can buy a bailer which is the same shape and recommended by you and does the same thing as a milk container

https://www.tcschandlery.co.uk/plast...-bailer/p13833

If you want something to be really effective if you can find one, a fire bucket is good because it has a flat side to hang against a wall, so will also scoop up water

We have several pumps on the yacht including one like this. The built in strum box is quite effective at picking up the last dregs which would be useful on a rib.

Pete

[Uh Oh]

Originally Posted by mikehhogg

at the very minimum carry two hand bailers and if possible fit a manual operated two way bilge pump.

Thanks Mike

[Uh Oh]

Thanks for the sound advice👍

[Metz Antenna Man]

The most effective Bailer is a man with a bucket in a sinking boat.
Seriously, if you catch a large wave incorrectly or have watersport people in and out of your boat, the water builds up quickly. I’ve driven boats with trunks but I prefer an auto bilge pump. We fitted two Rulemate auto bilge pumps to our rib (side by side in the well at the back of the boat) and they clear the water pretty quickly. Rulemate pumps have capacities varying from 500gph to 1100gph. I’ve just found that particular brand to be very reliable but I’m sure there are other equally good makes out there.

[Uh Oh]

Originally Posted by Phil and Jane

The most effective Bailer is a man with a bucket in a sinking boat.
Seriously, if you catch a large wave incorrectly or have watersport people in and out of your boat, the water builds up quickly. I’ve driven boats with trunks but I prefer an auto bilge pump. We fitted two Rulemate auto bilge pumps to our rib (side by side in the well at the back of the boat) and they clear the water pretty quickly. Rulemate pumps have capacities varying from 500gph to 1100gph. I’ve just found that particular brand to be very reliable but I’m sure there are other equally good makes out there.

Many thanks. You made us laugh! Cant disagree about the man in a sinking boat! I will look at the make you've mentioned. If I have a bilge pump fitted can I run it off the existing leisure battery without it being too much of a drain. It would only be for unexpected circumstances, so not needed 99% of the time.

[GuyC]

This one for example only uses 1.6 Amps so it isn't a big drain

https://www.asap-supplies.com/pumps/...ble-bilge-pump.

[Uh Oh]

Originally Posted by GuyC

This one for example only uses 1.6 Amps so it isn't a big drain

https://www.asap-supplies.com/pumps/...ble-bilge-pump.

Thank you 👍

[Pikey Dave]

Bilge pumps will only shift dribs & drabs. If you need to dump large amounts of water, e.g. after a stuffing, only elephants trunks will shift the volume.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Bilge pumps will only shift dribs & drabs. If you need to dump large amounts of water, e.g. after a stuffing, only elephants trunks will shift the volume.

You are in impatient man pikey - a bilge pump will eventually shift all that water (assuming no more comes in first!).

OP: water gets in your boat in various ways: rain, wet people climbing in, spray, stopping abruptly and it coming over the back, stuffing the bow into a wave, or potentially some sort of leak.

Beware when people compare their ways of dealing with these not all boats (not even all ribs) are comparable. Some have a deck normally above the water line; some have a well at the back where a bucket load of water can sump and be easily removed, some have a genuine bilge where water can get to and it is difficult to remove. Also there are other factors which come into play - the amount of power you have, the load you are carrying, the design of the transom (and therefore ease of fitting trunks*** etc), how many crew you have to bail, your battery installation, how long you leave the boat afloat for unattended (even a two hour hide in the pub whilst you avoid rain can add a lot of water).

It IS possible (in fact remarkably easy!) to stuff the bow into a big wave and find yourself knee deep in water. Keep in mind that 1. That may be too much weight to get you quickly on the plane and benefit from trunks etc (esp as you try to accelerate the weight of the water moves back making the bow go in the wrong direction); 2. That is most likely in conditions where getting up to speed and staying there can be tricky (don’t assume you’ll never be out in them); 3. That much water takes quite some time with a typical 500 Gph bilge pump*; 4. If the water level gets to the top of the battery, switch etc you may be unable to use electric pumps and possibly engine**; 5. If you are stopped in the water with the decks awash the boat will be sitting lower in the water and it becomes more likely to take on more - Getting water off the deck quickly is a priority.

The one method which will always work is a person with a bucket - but you can’t really helm properly and bail at the same time.


*it won’t actually pump 500 gallons over a transom via a small tube. I’d guess mine is about 1/2 that, assuming that nothing on deck has got caught in the intake.

**good design would prevent this but your options may be limited without lots of surgery.

***if you don’t have and can’t easily fit trunks it’s possible you have a fairly large drain hole directly behind the engine. This serve a similar function - when moving at speed it will drain the boat quickly. But it needs someone to remove and refit it. There are arrangements with floating ping pong balls or little rubber ducks bills that sort of help with that - but are notorious for leaking slightly when at rest. I keep meaning to find a way to add one that I can still close with a proper bung to leave on moorings/pontoons etc.

[jeffstevens763@g]

we hired a boat last week unbeknown to us the scupper drains [like a ping pong balls onto a seal] leaked very badly the water filled up to the console we sealed the the suppers up with plastic bags on the outside and pumped it out with the bilge pump, it took half an hour a fair amount of water but nothing like the amount if you stuff the boat. i had one of these scuppers on a rib it leaked overnight on a mooring when i got to it the whole deck was awash i got a lot out over the transom under power the rest went through the elephant's trunk finishing off with the bilge pump.

just read poly's last paragrafe he's had similar with the ping pong ball the best drain ive had and got is the gated drain a mushroom valve outside and a gate you push down to stop ingress inside

[Uh Oh]

Originally Posted by Poly

You are in impatient man pikey - a bilge pump will eventually shift all that water (assuming no more comes in first!).

OP: water gets in your boat in various ways: rain, wet people climbing in, spray, stopping abruptly and it coming over the back, stuffing the bow into a wave, or potentially some sort of leak.

Beware when people compare their ways of dealing with these not all boats (not even all ribs) are comparable. Some have a deck normally above the water line; some have a well at the back where a bucket load of water can sump and be easily removed, some have a genuine bilge where water can get to and it is difficult to remove. Also there are other factors which come into play - the amount of power you have, the load you are carrying, the design of the transom (and therefore ease of fitting trunks*** etc), how many crew you have to bail, your battery installation, how long you leave the boat afloat for unattended (even a two hour hide in the pub whilst you avoid rain can add a lot of water).

It IS possible (in fact remarkably easy!) to stuff the bow into a big wave and find yourself knee deep in water. Keep in mind that 1. That may be too much weight to get you quickly on the plane and benefit from trunks etc (esp as you try to accelerate the weight of the water moves back making the bow go in the wrong direction); 2. That is most likely in conditions where getting up to speed and staying there can be tricky (don’t assume you’ll never be out in them); 3. That much water takes quite some time with a typical 500 Gph bilge pump*; 4. If the water level gets to the top of the battery, switch etc you may be unable to use electric pumps and possibly engine**; 5. If you are stopped in the water with the decks awash the boat will be sitting lower in the water and it becomes more likely to take on more - Getting water off the deck quickly is a priority.

The one method which will always work is a person with a bucket - but you can’t really helm properly and bail at the same time.


*it won’t actually pump 500 gallons over a transom via a small tube. I’d guess mine is about 1/2 that, assuming that nothing on deck has got caught in the intake.

**good design would prevent this but your options may be limited without lots of surgery.

***if you don’t have and can’t easily fit trunks it’s possible you have a fairly large drain hole directly behind the engine. This serve a similar function - when moving at speed it will drain the boat quickly. But it needs someone to remove and refit it. There are arrangements with floating ping pong balls or little rubber ducks bills that sort of help with that - but are notorious for leaking slightly when at rest. I keep meaning to find a way to add one that I can still close with a proper bung to leave on moorings/pontoons etc.

Excellent advice. I'm grateful to you. Now I k now what I need to do. 👍

[GuyC]

As a variation to the theme, Pac 22's which are inboard diesel with the deck just above the waterline have sizeable freeing ports at the aft end. These have non-return'ish flaps on them that work quite well. The transom is also quite low with about 200mm (8" in Christian units) freeboard.

The deck also has a bit of sheer and by the time you have arrived at the console the deck is 75mm higher than it is at the stern.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Poly

You are in impatient man pikey - a bilge pump will eventually shift all that water (assuming no more comes in first!).

OP: water gets in your boat in various ways: rain, wet people climbing in, spray, stopping abruptly and it coming over the back, stuffing the bow into a wave, or potentially some sort of leak.

Beware when people compare their ways of dealing with these not all boats (not even all ribs) are comparable. Some have a deck normally above the water line; some have a well at the back where a bucket load of water can sump and be easily removed, some have a genuine bilge where water can get to and it is difficult to remove. Also there are other factors which come into play - the amount of power you have, the load you are carrying, the design of the transom (and therefore ease of fitting trunks*** etc), how many crew you have to bail, your battery installation, how long you leave the boat afloat for unattended (even a two hour hide in the pub whilst you avoid rain can add a lot of water).

It IS possible (in fact remarkably easy!) to stuff the bow into a big wave and find yourself knee deep in water. Keep in mind that 1. That may be too much weight to get you quickly on the plane and benefit from trunks etc (esp as you try to accelerate the weight of the water moves back making the bow go in the wrong direction); 2. That is most likely in conditions where getting up to speed and staying there can be tricky (don’t assume you’ll never be out in them); 3. That much water takes quite some time with a typical 500 Gph bilge pump*; 4. If the water level gets to the top of the battery, switch etc you may be unable to use electric pumps and possibly engine**; 5. If you are stopped in the water with the decks awash the boat will be sitting lower in the water and it becomes more likely to take on more - Getting water off the deck quickly is a priority.

The one method which will always work is a person with a bucket - but you can’t really helm properly and bail at the same time.


*it won’t actually pump 500 gallons over a transom via a small tube. I’d guess mine is about 1/2 that, assuming that nothing on deck has got caught in the intake.

**good design would prevent this but your options may be limited without lots of surgery.

***if you don’t have and can’t easily fit trunks it’s possible you have a fairly large drain hole directly behind the engine. This serve a similar function - when moving at speed it will drain the boat quickly. But it needs someone to remove and refit it. There are arrangements with floating ping pong balls or little rubber ducks bills that sort of help with that - but are notorious for leaking slightly when at rest. I keep meaning to find a way to add one that I can still close with a proper bung to leave on moorings/pontoons etc.

You don’t need to get on the plane for trunks to work. The shift in weight to the stern raises the bow & hydraulics do the rest. Walking pace will shift a remarkable amount of water very quickly.
Having been on the wrong end of a serious stuffing in overfalls by the Longstone light on the Farnes, I can vouch that bilge pumps were as useful as the proverbial chocolate fire guard. Water was coming over the side faster than any pump or manual bailer could cope with. As soon as I got the engine re-started & moved off, the boat was empty in about 20 seconds.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

You don’t need to get on the plane for trunks to work. The shift in weight to the stern raises the bow & hydraulics do the rest. Walking pace will shift a remarkable amount of water very quickly.
Having been on the wrong end of a serious stuffing in overfalls by the Longstone light on the Farnes, I can vouch that bilge pumps were as useful as the proverbial chocolate fire guard. Water was coming over the side faster than any pump or manual bailer could cope with. As soon as I got the engine re-started & moved off, the boat was empty in about 20 seconds.

Good point pikey - a point to be aware of if comparing to the just removing a big bung type scupper - they only work at reasonable speed.

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

You don’t need to get on the plane for trunks to work. The shift in weight to the stern raises the bow & hydraulics do the rest. Walking pace will shift a remarkable amount of water very quickly.
Having been on the wrong end of a serious stuffing in overfalls by the Longstone light on the Farnes, I can vouch that bilge pumps were as useful as the proverbial chocolate fire guard. Water was coming over the side faster than any pump or manual bailer could cope with. As soon as I got the engine re-started & moved off, the boat was empty in about 20 seconds.

I had a similar experience in a 7.5m RIB off Cape Wrath, with the boat full to the top of the tubes. There was no way the boat would get on the plane in those conditions but I was relieved at how quickly the water drained out at low speed.

[Ribtecer]

My experience was in the Solent heading from the Beaulieu River over to Cowes.

I had no idea of what a stuffing was, one minute we were zooming along nicely and then bang, we were in what I have now heard to be called "the green room" and that is exactly what it was.

It was like a being covered in a light green igloo for what seemed like ages and then suddenly all that water was instantly in the boat. The Rib was completely full of water, soaking wet I dropped the trunk and gave it some welly, but nothing. My daughter had bought an ice cream in Beaulieu that had a plastic cone within it and that had got stuck down the trunk.

Once I cleared that the water went quite quickly, but the whole thing was quite an experience during which my life jacket automatically inflated.

Having had that happen, I don't think I would want a Rib without an elephants trunk. Trying to shift that much water with a pump would take forever, and a bucket would be hard work.

[GuyC]

So the moral of the story is if you like a good stuffing, you need the trunk of an elephant.

Whilst going off topic, it's quite intersting. I made a mistake earlier. The Pac 22 transom has about 250mm of freeboard and the deck is about 50mm above the waterline meaning the max depth of water in the boat would be 200mm or about 1/3 of the way up the tubes.

I had a quick look at the workboat code and the minimum freeboard requirement at the transom is co-incidentally 250mm.

Looking at pictures on line, a lot of transoms are the same height or nearly the same height as the tubes with a lot more than 250mm of freeboard. Is it an outboard geometry thing although inboards seem to be similar.