Do paper charts still have a place on ribs?

[jakew009]

Been thinking of some longer trips recently, and after reading a lot of old threads, a common theme is ‘make sure you have paper charts’.

So I’ll admit to being a bad sailor and not owning a single paper chart or ever having even looked at one except for training exercises or rya exams.

However, I started to think what would have to happen before I needed to resort to a paper chart:

- two completely independent chart plotters would have to pack up. Yes they are networked but it would take seconds to disconnect them. They have their GPS receivers integrated so all they need is 12v.
- if both chart plotters somehow packed up, the autopilot screen could still give me an independent gps reading and waypoints assuming the GPS receiver is still on the network.
- if the whole NMEA network dies, the fixed VHF has it’s own gps and can do waypoint navigation to a sort.
- I have two handheld VHF units, they both have gps and waypoint navigation.
- my phone has the navionics app and all the same charts that the chart plotter has downloaded for offline use. My gf’s phone has the same.
- My iPad is in a waterproof case and also has the navionics app.
- I have a Garmin Inreach sat phone thing that can act as a mini chart plotter.
- the boat has a pretty redundant electrical system and I have enough tools that would allow me to bodge things back together.

If something happened that wiped out the electrical system to such an extent I couldn’t bodge it and all my batteries ran out, I’m either already dead or I’m waiting to be rescued having activated multiple plb’s and an epirb.

So can someone tell me what purpose a paper chart would serve and in what circumstance I would use it?

[lakelandterrier]

Well I have single chart plotter, not 2 units,with an old Garmin hand held in the grab bag as backup. I' don't take a tablet on board.

I tend to rib in the same areas and seldom go out of sight of land so know my areas if the plotter did pack up through a plotter fault / damage to the screen / GPS issue (not sure what that would be).

I still carry paper charts, and hand bearing compass - not that I've ever had to use them, but they are there to check depths, obstacles bearings etc. if ever required.

I guess it's the same with lots of back up / safety equipment - LJ / PLB etc - very few ever deploy them but you are more secure with them there. With paper charts there is nothing they depend on so it is an independent back up.

I suspect here is no "right" answer.

LT

[jeffstevens763@g]

I like to study them especially a new area before I go out

[jakew009]

Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g

I like to study them especially a new area before I go out

But do you take them on the boat with you?

[jeffstevens763@g]

Originally Posted by jakew009

But do you take them on the boat with you?

Yes but sometimes I just copy an area and encapsulate it

[paulbrown22]

On the RIB I have the slightly old Admiralty Tough Charts for most of my normal cruising areas, which are sadly now discontinued, but were a brilliant format for small fast boats. Although admittedly, to your main question, I don't generally use them, beyond maybe checking new harbours/anchorages or showing people our routes, but have them onboard just in case (and similarly have various plotters/handheld Garmin plotter/handheld VHF DSC with GPS, etc.).

Similarly on the sailing yacht we carry paper charts for our cruising areas, use them for high level planning, and keep a running plot on long and overnight passages just in case there's a major issue. But likewise, we have multiple independent (and independently powered) electronic plotting systems and GPS sources onboard which are our primary navigation means these days.

[Brian]

Cant say I am too fond of them on a boat.
I bought loads of paper charts first time we did a round Britain. Never got them out of the locker. Never used them since and sold them all shortly thereafter.
Bought another couple to do St. Kilda focusing on the channel between South Harris and Berneray at home. A notoriously complex area-look it up.
Only possible use for them onboard is to be available when close inshore in a tricky area when all your electronic navigation kit packs up. But even then...
I once used the sun to navigate by, in that same type situation, between Skomer Island, Wales and North Cornwall (or even North Devon-didnt care really) as from there I was in sight of land all the way back to Torquay. That was a gap of about 100nm.
Just needed to head due south-good job it was a fine day!

[Fenlander]

>>>Yes but sometimes I just copy an area and encapsulate it

Ok only a SIB I know but a small plotter on the seat and a handheld battery Garmin (chart type) in the pocket.

Also like Jeff I print out a chart of our intended area of operation onto A4 sheets and run through the laminator for emergency on-board backup.

And in truth for planning before we holiday in a new area nothing like a paper chart spread out on the sitting room carpet to get an overview.

[jonp]

They are legal requirement over here, so yes they certainly have a use but the fact most people wouldn't have a clue how take bearings and navigate a passage from them seems a bit pointless really.

Because I boat a large range of the coast when I head off on trips along the east coast (around 3500km) this means a lot of charts. I screen shot every location from Navionics or Camp charts on my home computer and print and laminate them on A4 paper.

I have two fitted gps units on the boat as well as a Garmin handheld and Garmin in reach, with my phone that's five electronic gps capable device but like I said we have to carry paper charts and at least one compass.

[GuyC]

Having a paper chart on board helps to give you an overview if you decide to change your plans but they are becoming less relevant as technology takes over - a bit like spelling, grammar and arithmetic. It's just a sign of the times and progress allegedly.

They are useful for planning and I quite enjoy looking at them, particularly some of the older Admiralty ones.

Laminating print outs is a good idea.

Happy New Year

[Poly]

Like others I find them useful for planning (or even replanning at lunchtime) and don’t have as many backups as you do, and probably a far smaller plotter screen.

I quite enjoy being on a boat to help get away from all the screens I stare at during the rest of life so actually like to avoid more screens where possible - but 20+ knots with a paper chart is not very practical on an open boat.

Personally I’ve always found fiddling around in side consoles looking for electrical faults to be a horrible experience in a rolling sea - and so would rather have the means to get into a port to make repairs than have to make repairs to get into port. With all your backups it’s likely you have sufficient options - at least unless either the GPS system goes down (not impossible) or something like a lightening strike which is likely to be bad for modern engines too, and so need help anyway.

[paintman]

Technology takes over from the old ways & I think that's pretty much the way with maps & charts.
But if you've no tech on the boat then still worth considering.

I've boated in the same area of Cornwall for over 50 years, but only bought a combined fishfinder/chart plotter in 2014, prior to that the only tech on the boats was a fishfinder. Mobile phone doesn't count as I'm a computery stuff dinosaur & only got one of these android things last year when my old Nokia packed up Plus the signal was rubbish anyway.

I've had the area chart for years (fishing spots!) & it's on the boat in a map case, folded to show the area.
I have a fixed compass on the boat & still carry a hand-held compass.
Only used it once in anger when we had a thick fog arrive. From perfect visibility to less than 10 yards.
Bearing taken on a land feature before it closed in. Chart used for distance/speed/time of three legs to return to harbour.
Alternatives would have been to anchor & wait it out - it did clear around 3 hours later - or close with the shore & hope I could get just enough visibility to follow the coast back in without bumping into anything.

ETA Consider a chinagraph pencil as you can make a note in a hurry on any hard surface & then wipe it off when no longer needed.

[treerat]

I've not carried one on the rib for years.

I'll study the on line ones before I go and have the plotter on board for navigation if required.

Most of my cruising is inshore, in sight of land and in known areas. I have the manual compass on board in case it's needed but don't launch if it's looking grim out - I'm a fun boater

I do take a laminated copy when needed for events in areas I don't know so well, gives me an over view but not really used for navigation.

If I was off to areas unknown or long cruses off shore I may well decide to take some, but at present can't see a need.

[Tim M]

No paper here either. My primary navigation aid is a Garmin plotter. Also carry a battery powered Garmin for backup position if ever required. And Navionics on my phone. A hand bearing compass is also handy if you ever have to request assistance as you can give a bearing to something you can see.

Navionics on an iPad is great for planning at home. You can also view the free version on any web browser.

I wonder how many of those who still use / carry charts update and correct them.....

[36valley]

Having charts to look at while on the boat is part of the appeal for me. I use the chart plotter for making sure I don't run into anything in the immediate vicinity and for entering harbours and any close inshore stuff, but the charts give me better overview of the area when running along the coast

I've got a A3 clipboard on a Rokk phone mount clamped to the passenger grab handle, takes a folded chart in a cut down plastic sleave from an Imray chart folio. A couple of shock chord loops keep the charts in place even at 40 knots. A white board marker pen writes on the sleeve when needed. In fact the white board pen is useful for writing notes on the console in a hurry, wipes off easily when finished with.

Obviously that's only when I'm solo, but that's 90% of the time for me.

[ShinyShoe]

Some of this very much has to vary by the MO of the boater?

If you RIB in the Solent. Go no-where else. Then 1 paper chart would suffice but you may not need it if your likelihood of navigation without visibility of land is low (fair weather boaters). On the other hand... If you cross the Channel to Scilly or CIs it might be quite easy to miss them especially if the Vis is less than perfect and your electronics are playing up.

The OP seems to have done quite a lot to build redundancy. Assuming the phones and ipads are still charged etc. Easy to leave the house with a half charged device. But while you would hope GPS sats never fails... What if it did? Your plan could simply be turn due south / north whatever knowing you will find some land... May be easier if you've pre-studied a map to know there is no shallow outcrop of rock 1 mile off shore...

[Brian]

One thought I have had, since posting is this.
Charts have marked on them, the fair-way passage into ports or through "difficult " areas.
This is v. useful but, once again, knowing this aids planning, but doesn't really necessitate carrying on the boat. (IMHO).

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Tim M

I wonder how many of those who still use / carry charts update and correct them.....

I may be odd in that I find updating/correcting charts interesting and almost therapeutic - but I think any criticism of out of date charts is just as valid for most plotter people too...

[jakew009]

I think the point of the thread was to challenge the assertion that a paper chart is still somehow an essential safety item for a sea passage.

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

...especially if the Vis is less than perfect and your electronics are playing up.

This is an interesting point (and sorry to pick on your post - others have said the same thing). Why would your electronics play up?

If your boat is safely wired with some sensible redundancy, the only thing that is going to make them ‘play up’ is a major component failure which is extremely unlikely. A backup makes this a non issue.

If your boat has regular electrical gremlins - why is it going to sea in the first place in a situation where a paper chart would be an essential piece of safety equipment? Would you go to sea if you thought your engine might ‘play up’?

The OP seems to have done quite a lot to build redundancy.

On the contrary, most boats on the water will have multiple smart phones which are far more powerful than any chart plotter on the market today and conveniently gave a totally self contained power backup system.

But while you would hope GPS sats never fails... What if it did? Your plan could simply be turn due south / north whatever knowing you will find some land... May be easier if you've pre-studied a map to know there is no shallow outcrop of rock 1 mile off shore...

The chance of all the worlds gps systems failing simultaneously? Almost zero (don’t forget modern gps receivers are picking up gps, glonass, beidou, and galileo).

And if they did fail? You’d still have a functional chart plotter that would be far more useful than any paper chart.

[jakew009]

Originally Posted by Brian

One thought I have had, since posting is this.
Charts have marked on them, the fair-way passage into ports or through "difficult " areas.
This is v. useful but, once again, knowing this aids planning, but doesn't really necessitate carrying on the boat. (IMHO).

Don’t modern chart plotters have exactly the same thing? Mine certainly do.

I can even just click on the route and the autopilot will drive the boat along it.