Dog at the Helm??

[Jonny Fuller]

Originally Posted by ian parkes

It seems to me that the whole design of the throttle lever / kill chord is wrong .
The throttle lever was surely made for slow boats , not fast boats .
The kill chord seems to be added as an afterthought , and its easy to forget to put it on
The only other thing that i can think of that has a hand throttle lever that stays set is a Tractor . Even a lawnmower has a dead mans handle .

A complete re think is what is required IMO

Yes, it's called a foot throttle. as you say, a setup where the driver also throttles in a boat that is capable of any more than say 30knts is fundementaly dangerous. my argument is that there's very little to keep you in a cockpitless boat if it changes direction quickly, or without warning.

You could in theory get wrenched away from the wheel/throttle, but still be within the boat, and close enough for the stretchy kill cord to remain connected, so sat in a driverless boat, at least for a few seconds. At least with a self returning throttle, you return to idle if the kill cord doesn't do it's job.

My foot throttle arangement:

[ian parkes]

Great that turned from fuller to puller really well .

Maybe a racing boat cockpit is better if you are strapped in to a racing seat , but most speedboats / bowriders etc would only ensure you went through a widshield or smashed your legs uder the dash or whatever hardon boaters call it .

[Jonny Fuller]

bowriders should be banned from going over 10knts, along with you lot.

when I talk about fast hardboats, I aint talking about all that windscreened/bowrider type American dross.

Having said all that, I'd still rather be in a drossy yank hardboat at 60, than any open rib, especially one equiped with those joke jockey ejector things!

Still, I hope you manage to stay in your boat having said all this to me.

[Biggles]

Jonny. I think you do have a point with regards RIBs and very high speed. Speedboats are good at that stuff and I don't think RIBs will ever beat speedboats at going fast and being reasonably safe.
However your average speedboat is pants in the rough stuff and thats why I use a RIB. If I wanted to ponce around in a speedboat I'd move to America and zoom around a nice smooth lake. Unfortunately I can't afford to do that just yet so I'll stick to my small RIB which is capable of a fair speed but loves the rough stuff and I can tow it, but not reverse, easily.

I've never seen a poncy speed boat at sea in February ! Plenty of yachts, a few RIBs and many fishing boats but not speedboats. As you say, for me, its Horses for courses !!!

[Jonny Fuller]

Originally Posted by Biggles

Jonny. I think you do have a point with regards RIBs and very high speed. Speedboats are good at that stuff and I don't think RIBs will ever beat speedboats at going fast and being reasonably safe.
However your average speedboat is pants in the rough stuff and thats why I use a RIB. If I wanted to ponce around in a speedboat I'd move to America and zoom around a nice smooth lake. Unfortunately I can't afford to do that just yet so I'll stick to my small RIB which is capable of a fair speed but loves the rough stuff and I can tow it, but not reverse, easily.

I've never seen a poncy speed boat at sea in February ! Plenty of yachts, a few RIBs and many fishing boats but not speedboats. As you say, for me, its Horses for courses !!!

MMmn, you might occasionaly find me out in the winter, but it aint the boat stopping me from making regular trips out!.....ribs just attract the bowie knife survival type for some reason.
I'm not too sure what it is that everyone on here thinks makes a rib so good in rough conditions, but hey, if you wanna believe that, that's just fine.

As for 'speedboats', especially the ponsey yank bowrider type of thing, i'm in front of you in the que for calling them pants, so no argument there from me.

[ian parkes]

Must have posted together there , i was replying to previous post

But saying ribs are more dangerous , you have to compare like sized boats .
I think most 5m speedboats would give up in a rough sea long before the same size rib .

I hired a jetski recently on holiday , it wasn't my cup of tea but the lever throttle was very good , surely that could work on a rib .
Mount a hand throttle to a solid bar so you could hold on as well as adjust the throttle .

How difficult would it be for someone to make a kit to seperate the throttle cable from the gear selector , or even run a seperate cable to a thumb throttle so it could be used seperatly . I for one would be a customer .

[Jonny Fuller]

Originally Posted by ian parkes

saying ribs are more dangerous , you have to compare like sized boats . I think most 5m speedboats would give up in a rough sea long before the same size rib.

Well, to some degree, I agree with that, but that's because the average 5m 'speedboat' is a cheap piece of crap, for lake boating, or pulling a doughnut.

In comparison, I'd have a go go at you (race) in an 18' phantom, up against an equal sized rib (5m) with equal power, in any sea condition you chose. now that would be "like for like" and I'd be happy to have a wee wager on it too.

Originally Posted by ian parkes

I hired a jetski recently on holiday , it wasn't my cup of tea but the lever throttle was very good , surely that could work on a rib .
Mount a hand throttle to a solid bar so you could hold on as well as adjust the throttle .

How difficult would it be for someone to make a kit to seperate the throttle cable from the gear selector , or even run a seperate cable to a thumb throttle so it could be used seperatly . I for one would be a customer .

I think that's a fine idea. or maybe even a business opportunity!....could be your future that!!

[Tomas]

Pardon me while I barf.

[ian parkes]

Originally Posted by Jonny Fuller

Well, to some degree, I agree with that, but that's because the average 5m 'speedboat' is a cheap piece of crap, for lake boating, or pulling a doughnut.

In comparison, I'd have a go go at you (race) in an 18' phantom, up against an equal sized rib (5m) with equal power, in any sea condition you chose. now that would be "like for like" and I'd be happy to have a wee wager on it too.

You could be right , I have never been in a phantom . All I can compare is when i see people swimming etc from speedboats they seem to almost dip the gunwhale under with one person stood on it . When the rib lands a bit on its side off a wave the tubes do put it back on even keel . There has been a few times i have felt that without the tubes things could have been a bit interesting .



I think that's a fine idea. or maybe even a business opportunity!....could be your future that!!

If I had time ,

[prairie tuber]

Originally Posted by Jonny Fuller

You're a real switched on guy aren't you!

my comments are about how the usual seating setup, and lack of freeboard in rubber dinghies, generaly make them a poor vehicle for fast operation, coz any sharp change in direction is highly likely to result in an 'ejection'. That is not only 'fact', but with half a brain, it's pretty easy to see the logic.

Now, your fabulous comparison of the 61 year old pensioner, sat in a swivel chair at the bow of fast aluminum fishing boat is hardly representative of a performance cockpited hardboat intended for tearing about in a chop, is it!

"Ontario Provincial Police in Kenora said 61-year-old James Smith of Newport, Kentucky, was sitting in a swivel chair at the bow of the five-metre aluminum boat when the operator momentarily lost control of the vessel, causing him to fall out of his seat"

That sir, is nearly as stupid as trying to go fast in a rib!.....horses for courses, as we say here.

If you're going to quote me as talking Bullshit, please at least try and find an example that holds water (excuse the pun)

Do you prefer to run your raceboats fast, or do you prefer trolling? The incident I cited was because it happened within the last week. People get separated from there hardboats frequently in North America, especially when on the lakes that are larger than the average European country (eg. Great Lakes, L. Winnipeg, Great Slave L etc...) All it takes is a large wave to come over the bow/stern/side of the boat, and people are separated from it as it sinks straight to the bottom.

The premise of your argument that RIBs are no good for high speed boating does not hold water because it is based on your presumption that they cannot have racing style cockpits whereas hardboats can. The issue is really what style of seating/cockpit is appropriate for high speed boating not whether it's a RIB or a hardboat. There are lots of RIBS out there that are with cockpits for high speeds as well. I can't think of any racing hardboats I would prefer over a RIB such as an FB Techno 42 for travelling at high speeds in rough conditions. .

[Jonny Fuller]

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

I can't think of any racing hardboats I would prefer over a RIB such as an FB Techno 42 for travelling at high speeds in rough conditions. .

Plenty of people falling out of boats like the one you've quoted, but lets face it, those wee fishing boats with chairs on stalks at the bow, bowriders and the plethera of flimsy little blinged up speed boats you have over there are not representative of the kind of boats I would use as comparative craft to mine, or any other more serious saltwater hardboats. ....Hadly surprising you have a long list of idiots falling out of their boats......Only in America!
I really don't think you'd find such a boat (little aluminum thing, with a chair on a stick) tearing about in the Solent at speed, not for long anyway.

An interesting point about cockpits and true, but what percentage of pleasure ribs do you reckon have a 'proper cockpit' ?? I can tell you, over here, virtually none, which is why I made the point in the first place. Care to post a few pics of cockpited ribs in your neck of the woods (no library pics please, just your own).

Funny too how you Yanks are always compelled to remind us what a small country we live in (on) odd that innit! must be summat to do with the mentality...not sure of the relevance.

Anyways...

The Techno is indeed a fine high speed rough water boat, one of, if not THE best, but that isn't because it's a rib.
Buzzi has built a good few ultra capable ribs, he also builds the very same boats with topsides, those boats are just as capable, don't suffer the indignity of repeated tube failure unlike their rubbered sisters and in a few cases on the extreme performance models, the rib version has been dropped because it became a little too common place for them to develop a very high speed tube walk (bouncing from tube to tube) resulting in a barrel roll. The hard version doesn't suffer from that.

Don't get me wrong, if the conditions are such that one is required to lolop along, and through mountainous seas, at very low speed and with decks constantly awash, an unsinkable boat with mamouth natural deck drainage would be my first choice over a super fast design aswell. Still not sure I'd bother with rubber tubes mind you, as those attributes are easily available without the use of such delicate and voulnerable bouyancy.

But VERY few of you ribbers ever 'actually' use your boats in the conditions you all constantly quote them as being so suitable for anyway.
It's a weird obsession with perceived rough water ability that seems to go hand in hand with Bowie knives, cammo trousers and an obsession with danger, weapons and macho attitudes.
The reality seems to be, (over here at least) that when the weather's bad, there's just as many ribnobbas heading back in, or choosing not to make the passage as any other boating genre (excepting the sailing mob, who are all barmy) whilst you all talk as if that's the weather you're waiting for to make it actually worth going out at all.

You're a funny lot.....All 'wannabe' lifeboatmen I reckon. I'm sure there aught to be a medial term for it.

And back to the original point, trawl through these forums and see how many ejection stories you find (at surprisingly low speeds) and compare that with a performance hard boat forum (such as the excellent boatmad.com ) and you find hardly any, in fact, virtualy none, and the average speeds those users are commonly doing is probably twice that of the average wannabe marine/lifeboatmen.

[chewy]

What would happen if you filled one of your speed boats full of water, how long would it take to drain or would it capsize?
Fill a RIB with water and it will drain within a minute and still float.
You don't have to be a genius to work out which is the better boat but then you'll tell me the RNLI have been using the wrong sort of boat for inshore rescue since the 70's.
The RNLI used hard boats for inshore rescue but they stability is no where near that of a RIB. You try capsizing your bit of tupperware and righting it again and see what happens.
I think we should do the capsize test before we even think about running them head and head!

Phill

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Jonny Fuller

..It's a weird obsession with perceived rough water ability that seems to go hand in hand with Bowie knives, cammo trousers and an obsession with danger, weapons and macho attitudes.

Oi, I object to that, I wear pink knickers and tights.

The reality seems to be, (over here at least) that when the weather's bad, there's just as many ribnobbas heading back in, or choosing not to make the passage as any other boating genre

That's cos they're southern woosies not cos they're ribnobbas.

You're a funny lot.....

Unfortunately, I can't find an argument against that.

Cumon, tell us who's feird of the rain...

What I don't understand is the need to go at a zillion miles an hour when going somewhere. I go boating to go boating. If I go too fast I get there too soon and then what, sit in a pub? Why would I want to do that?

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by jwalker

If I go too fast I get there too soon and then what, sit in a pub? Why would I want to do that?

Small willy syndrome?


Course, I'd never accuse anyone with a leviathan of anything like that

[Jonny Fuller]

Originally Posted by jwalker

What I don't understand is the need to go at a zillion miles an hour when going somewhere. I go boating to go boating. If I go too fast I get there too soon and then what, sit in a pub? Why would I want to do that?

The sailing crowd have the exact same argument for you doing 30knts.

I don't do pubs, they tend to be full of ribbers with a bucket full of tall stories about 50 foot seas and big willies!

[PeterM]

I would suggest politely that Jonny Fuller stop insulting everyone who has a RIB , stop trying to compensate for some kind of defficiency ( as already suggested) by banging on by how 'good' hard boats are ( maybe the only hard thing in his life ???) and assuming he clealry knows best about everything nautical.

I have a RIB as it wont sink if its full of water ( fairly important for a boat ! ) , I can know that my kids dont have to climb a 3 ft vertical wall to get in after skiing swimming etc & we can all sit on the same side & only have a minor list.

I shall now stop ready the long over complicated posts - if I want a race boat I would buy one - I dont so I got a rib - I have yet to see a boat I can fit in my garage that I can get several people & kit in safely & still be safe in bad weather - but hey I am not Jonny Fuller so clearly I must be a twat !

[chewy]

I think Johns profile sums him up
Occupation: Stirring it up
Interests: none

You only seem to reply to certain posts John, I see you haven't explained to me why the RNLI should use hard boats rather than RIBS. Thats because you know RIBs are the best boats for the job.
You obviously have nothing better to do with your life than try and upset people.
Why don't don't you chat on a forum about hard boats... is it because no onw will talk to you because all that you come out with is shite?
What about the cost of buying RIBs, most are cheaper than hard boats but then thats probably slipped your simple little mind to.
If you like your hard boat go tell someone who cares.
The name of this forum gives it away "Rib.net" not

www.I've.got.a.hardboat.and.its.better.than.yours. net

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Jonny Fuller

The sailing crowd have the exact same argument for you doing 30knts...

Aye, but I do want to arrive before the tide goes out.

[Carl]

Originally Posted by chewy

I think Johns profile sums him up
Occupation: Stirring it up
Interests: none

You only seem to reply to certain posts John, I see you haven't explained to me why the RNLI should use hard boats rather than RIBS. Thats because you know RIBs are the best boats for the job.
You obviously have nothing better to do with your life than try and upset people.
Why don't don't you chat on a forum about hard boats... is it because no onw will talk to you because all that you come out with is shite?
What about the cost of buying RIBs, most are cheaper than hard boats but then thats probably slipped your simple little mind to.
If you like your hard boat go tell someone who cares.
The name of this forum gives it away "Rib.net" not

www.I've.got.a.hardboat.and.its.better.than.yours. net

i wasnt going to comment on this thread but you REALLY do need to check your facts out about the prices of ribs and hard boats

[Jonny Fuller]

Another good saturdays fishing, and all I had for bait, is a few good strong egos and over imaginative minds.

Just off to see if the boat'll fit in the garage.

PS. I'd love to see this 4m boat, full of family and 'kit' (whatever the hell that means) out in bad weather! would that be bad weather of the hard boat, or soft boat catagory?

Honestly....you lot make my weekends.

might also go in search of hard boat site to talk some more shite. (that I've learned here)

PPS. Carl is right, you're also deluded about prices! RIBs are well over priced, coz you lot are suckers.