DON'T support the RNLI . . .

[chewy]

So not all Inde stations are declared, they have to be to a set standard and if they aren't then they can't be declared!

[Simon Hawkins]

There are some people out their who will call themselves a lifeboat, but these are not SAR capable, and are not declared facilities to the coastguard. An example of this is the Venturers in the solent.

[Focus Waterspor]

All rescue services deserve our full support, I spend a lot of time in my RIB at sea and feel secure that if anything goes wrong a call to the Coastguard will result in someone coming to help.

I willingly support both the Independents and the RNLI.

One of the problems seems to be the change in the nature of rescue work:
- We now have very fast and powerful boats, gone are the days of using 25 or 50 hp. we now have boats packing 150 - 250 hp giving greater range and speed.
- More people are using the water for recreation, many without any experience or ill equipped to be in open water.
- There is a greater reliance on "electronic navigation" that will breakdown when mixed with salt water at the most inconvenient time.
- Change in weather patterns, the bad summer has seen some freek conditions for the time of year.
- Many seaside visitors dont seem to see danger of the sea, the numbers of people washed to sea on LiLo or small inflatable boat raises year on year

The rescue services need more and better equipment just to maintain the same level of service.

The RNLI looks as if they have the funding but they have the capability to go out in any conditions the boats must take a real pounding, the maintenance of my boat is high I would hate to think how much it cost to keep all these boats safe and up-to-standard.

Just support all our volunteer rescue crews.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Simon Hawkins

There are some people out their who will call themselves a lifeboat, but these are not SAR capable, and are not declared facilities to the coastguard. An example of this is the Venturers in the solent.

And yet they are just as capable - sometimes even more so. I read of a rescue in a boat mag where a yacht was in difficulties and the RNLI ILB was struggling - along came this dirty great Ocean Dynamics and saved the day!!!

[genoa]

Originally Posted by codprawn

And yet they are just as capable - sometimes even more so. !!!

Sure, but this is where the MCA inspections etc are important. I would hate to think that anyone could stick a blue light on their A frame and go rescue my kids in the SIB if they had a problem. You always need someone on the scene with appropriate skill / experience to take control, even if they 'comandeer' another vessels help for the extra grunt.

As a rescue cox for a sailing club it frightens my sometimes when you see well meaning folk try and help and cause more problems. - Lets make sure the best people are available on the scene at all levels and from all sources.

[Mikeallenuk]

The following link for the Southampton Boatshow might be of interest to you.

Note the difference in running costs between the RNLI and an Independent unit !!!!!!

http://www.southamptonboatshow.com/f...archandrescue/

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by genoa

Sure, but this is where the MCA inspections etc are important. I would hate to think that anyone could stick a blue light on their A frame and go rescue my kids in the SIB if they had a problem. You always need someone on the scene with appropriate skill / experience to take control, even if they 'comandeer' another vessels help for the extra grunt.

As a rescue cox for a sailing club it frightens my sometimes when you see well meaning folk try and help and cause more problems. - Lets make sure the best people are available on the scene at all levels and from all sources.

Maybe so but if I was in feezing cold waters and slipping away I don't think I would care too much who rescued me - the first there is usually the best bet!!!

[whiteminiman]

Originally Posted by chewy

The RNLI still needs money and is legally obliged to provide cover upto 50miles offshore with 2hrs.

Legally obliged by who?

Think how the RNLI runs... it is a request (not an order) from HMCG to the local lifeboat. The decision rests with the Launching Authority at the lifeboat station whether to go or not... assuming enough crew turns up.

How can there be ANY legal obligations when the whole organisation is based upon volunteering!?

Refer to this document : http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-uk...k_document.pdf for how it actually works.

In particular, the following sections:

2. International obligations

2.1 The UK organisation for civil maritime and civil aviation search and rescue is derived from the UK Government’s adherence to the Convention on the High Seas (1958), the Convention on Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS) (1974), the Maritime Search and Rescue Convention (1979) and the Convention on International Civil Aviation (Chicago 1944).

2.2 The UK responsibility for SAR measures for ships, aircraft and persons, whether civilian or military, covers the UK SAR Region (UKSRR). (See Annex A.)

4. Division of UK SAR responsibility

4.1 Responsibility for civil aeronautical and maritime SAR policy rests with the Department for Transport, (DfT). As such, the DfT is responsible, through the UK SAR Strategic Committee, for assessing the adequacy of UK civil aeronautical and maritime SAR resources, response and co-ordination.

4.2 The responsibility for the co-ordination of land-based and inland waters SAR rests with the Police Service and is derived from their duty to protect life and property.

5. Government departments with responsibility for national SAR

5.1 Department for Transport, (DfT)

5.1.1 The Agencies and Branches of the DfT carry out broad responsibilities in maritime and aeronautical safety.

5.1.2 The Maritime & Coastguard Agency (MCA) provides a response and co-ordination service for maritime SAR, counter pollution and salvage. The SAR role is undertaken by HM Coastguard, which is responsible for the initiation and co-ordination of civil maritime SAR. This includes the mobilisation, organisation and tasking of adequate resources to respond to persons either in distress at sea or to persons at risk of injury or death on the
cliffs and shoreline of the UK. As part of its response, the MCA provides auxiliary Coastguard Rescue Teams for cliff and shoreline search and rescue purposes.

6. Authorities and organisations with responsibility for, or significant involvement in, national SAR

6.4 Royal National Lifeboat Institution (RNLI)

6.4.1 The RNLI is a voluntary organisation incorporated by Royal Charter for the purpose of saving lives and promoting safety at sea and, in the future, on the inland waters of the UK, Channel Islands, Isle of Man and Republic of Ireland. This it does by providing and maintaining a fleet of Inshore and All Weather Lifeboats located at strategic points as determined by the Institution’s Committee of Management. The RNLI reserves the right to direct its own assets, co-ordinated by the responsible authority.

Also, if you take a look at the map on page 16 of the linked document, you'll see that area that the UK is responsible for with regards to Maritime SAR is just a teensy bit bigger than 50 miles offshore.

Hope that clears things up.

WMM

[seabridgemarine]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

No, the subject title may be deliberately provocative but I am absolutely serious.
No, I'm talking about poorly funded amateurs v well funded amateurs. With a few exceptions, RNLI crews are not professional rescue crews. They are dedicated, part time volunteers the same as the independent crews.Why? I would rather that my nearest lifeboat was properly funded and equipped, irrespective of which organisation runs it.How much more money could they possibly need? They already have more than they can spend.I would say that you are seriously underestimating the capabilities of the independent lifeboat crews. There may indeed be some more. They probably need your help too. If you think it's easy, try phoning up the Coastguard and saying "I've got a fast RIB and a lifebelt, can I be a Declared Rescue Facility?"

John

I CANNOT BELEIVE WHAT I AM READING !!!

You have obviously never had to use the RNLI in an emergency situation. I hope that you never have to use them (probably won't as you don't go futher than 10 miles from the coast and thats as far as the local rescue crews go) and if you do the RNLI crew have not read this post !!

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by seabridgemarine

I CANNOT BELEIVE WHAT I AM READING !!!

You have obviously never had to use the RNLI in an emergency situation. I hope that you never have to use them (probably won't as you don't go futher than 10 miles from the coast and thats as far as the local rescue crews go) and if you do the RNLI crew have not read this post !!

Which bit can't you believe?

John

[Simon Hawkins]

What makes you think Independents dont go further than 10 miles from shore. Freshwater lifeboat is Independent and they extend to mid Channel.

[John Kennett]

As they're not a Declared Rescue Facility I've split off the discussion about Venturers Search and Rescue into a new thread to avoid any confusion.

They are a great organisation, and are definitely worthy of our support, but they are fundamentally different from the independent lifeboat organisations that this thread is about.

John

[Rogue Wave]

I guess this may still be of interest

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by Keith Hart

Of course it all begs the question...why the heck is our national maritime rescue service funded only by charity anyway?

Keith Hart

This post has said it all!!!! We have Ambulane, We have Police, We have Fire. We have PAID coast guard.They all serve a bloody good purpose and life saving service.
What annoys me is the amount of money in the marine industry and why are these guys not paid ?????
If EVERYONE in the uk who own a boat pay a set fee everyyear for the rescue service maybe there would be enough money to pay these guys for putting there own lifes a risk.

Lets take 5 mins to Prioritise the risks on the services mentioned. In my opinion from the highest - Lowest risked role.

Fire
LifeBoat/Rescue/CoastGuard crew's.
Police
Ambulane

I boat on an inland Loch Lomond and while this is controled by the Clyde coastguard (in rescue situations) the rescue boat on the loch is self funded by fundraising and nothing to do with RNLI. This really annoys me considering the amount of boats registered on the Loch. Why dont we all pay £10 -£20 per year to help fund this 1st class service ?

About 1 month ago I was just coming out the marina and there was a shout over the radio that someone had run aground. Lucklily the rescue boat was out but within 5 mins the boat was on the scene. GREAT service ALL these guys provide...anyway I could rabbit on and I know my opinion counts for nothing in this topic but one day the silly goverment will see sence and work out the true facts of all the services that need the support.


Chris

This sort of topic will always be a heated topic.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by honeybee

one day the silly goverment will see sence and work out the true facts of all the services that need the support.

the last thing any of us need is the lifeboats of any description to be government funded. They'd make the same mess of it they've done with the police, fire and ambulance.

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

the last thing any of us need is the lifeboats of any description to be government funded. They'd make the same mess of it they've done with the police, fire and ambulance.

That is debatable.................

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by honeybee

That is debatable.................

One word. Cutbacks.

[honeybee]

We all have cut backs in our workplace..I have been through 2 restructers in the last year but this does not mean the work is affected.

The goverment are far from perfect but at least the volentry service men will be:-

Paid
Properly insured for what they do
Pensioned at a decent level

Plus reak the benifits that all other services have.

This debate/conersation/argument will & could go on forever if ever if everyone put in their thoughts ...so I have no more to input.

Chris

[Rogue Wave]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

the last thing any of us need is the lifeboats of any description to be government funded. They'd make the same mess of it they've done with the police, fire and ambulance.

would you rather some accountant/salesman answer a bleeper and slip into a volunteers paramedics uniform and perform an emergency tracheochtomy at the roadside.

Thanks but I'll take a professional everytime! Even if it's Mr. Manning

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

would you rather some accountant/salesman answer a bleeper and slip into a volunteers paramedics uniform and perform an emergency tracheochtomy at the roadside.

Thanks but I'll take a professional everytime! Even if it's Mr. Manning

Ever heard of the reserve fire crews where some accountant/salesman answer a bleeper and slip into a volunteers fireman's uniform and drag people out of burning buildings?