DON'T support the RNLI . . .

[Rogue Wave]

I have only been involved in one rescue situation, and that was when a Mayday went out for a cabin cruiser on fire off Calshot. we were in the water in a fast boat at the time and were the first on the scene by a good couple of minutes.

The owner was tackling the fire and managed to put it out as we arrived, so we transferred his kids to the RIb and stood off whilst waiting for the lifeboats to arrive. They duly arrived and and we transferred our new passengers to their boats and carried on with the training course.

So Noddy, in that case the rescue craft was not even a gifted amateur, would you have turned down the offer of help and waited for the RNLI to arrive or would you have ensured the safety of your passengers. I think like the rest of us yu would have happily transferred your pasengers to a safe vessell.

Out of interest the second boat on the scene was the Hamble rescue boat.
Both myself and JK were careful not to rubbish the RNLI as they do do an outstanding charity, unfortunately the tales of excess and waste about the Poole operation has reached legendary proprtions. Also like any other national Charity the RNLI is a seriously big business (richest charity in the world until it's portfolio took a nosedive). which answers your question about the RNLI putting the money into the savings account.

During Cowes week the Cowes inshore lifeboat is not allowed to raise money as the RNLI is the beneficary of the event.....how fair is that.

I am not knocking the RNLI i am just saying that yep we need to support the fast car and bucket brigade too.

Now has anybody else got a boat driver and fuel they want to donate to an open day

[David B]

Well what an emotive subject and gtee to get a response..........well JK for obtaining more traffic !!!!!!

We do not get beer our paid for ( although it would be nice ) and with regard to the wages, it is in line with an individuals earnings, remember there are some of the crew volunteers who earn say in excess of £100K pa and to take time away to further develope their skills it has to be paid for.On average a crew member attending Cowes will be paid £65.00 per day and the basic accomodation is provided along with a small allowance for food.Speaking on our station the majority of crew are all experienced and have many 1000s of sea hours logged be it commercial or lesuire however the ones who do not have a maritime background are equally as capable on service.I respect the "other" rescue facilities however one can not compare the standards between the two.The RNLI leads the SAR field by far even surpassing the US coast guard in my opinon and yes i have done both. On the subject of wasting money . I agree there are areas which need to be taken care of but that can be said of any corporate giant in the Market........Oh by the way I am ALB crew / mechanic and also cover our D class when times dictate.........have a nice day

[DGR]

I wasn't knocking the RNLI - I haven't got a single reason to.

All I was suggesting is that as they are very good at fundraising, why not extend the single fundraising source to cover the other services? If they could afford to do it, it would seem sensible. If they can't then they won't.

Big organisations DO need a lot of infrastructure and facilities - I know, I work for one. However, when times do get more difficult and cash becomes difficult to come by, you still have to carry that enormous overhead.

I would also hate to see the RNLI lose it's status as a charity, and have to become a non-profit organisation that chucks away good money in tax. The only one of those I can currently think of is the Railways...

Dylan...

[Scary Des]

I agree that we should not knock the RNLI, as a concept it’s great, I am knocking the individuals who think that take charitable donations and speculating with them is reasonable.

On the matter of reserve, in business terms, 22 month is excessive and as mentioned above could in part be useful spent on improvement to the service. Des

[David B]

I was not actually having a go at you !!! I think on a personal note that JK should look at the other organisations in more detail . I have worked with one of them ! and all i can say is if in time of need and that Mayday call is made
then I for one hope that Its the RNLI who come to assist me. I have attended virtually EVERY course they do in addition to outside bodies such as MCA and RYA having qualified and obtained many qualifications from basic courses such as day skipper through to yachtmaster ocean .I also trained as a mechanic ( MCA approved 0 via the RNLI and i must say its the most thorough training programme out there) These days the courses are run along side the MCA and RYA within the RNLI and now carry full commercial endorsements . I do not believe that this is the case with the "others " I respect your views and did not mean to offend ( thats if I did )

Originally Posted by DGR

I wasn't knocking the RNLI - I haven't got a single reason to.

All I was suggesting is that as they are very good at fundraising, why not extend the single fundraising source to cover the other services? If they could afford to do it, it would seem sensible. If they can't then they won't.

Big organisations DO need a lot of infrastructure and facilities - I know, I work for one. However, when times do get more difficult and cash becomes difficult to come by, you still have to carry that enormous overhead.

I would also hate to see the RNLI lose it's status as a charity, and have to become a non-profit organisation that chucks away good money in tax. The only one of those I can currently think of is the Railways...

Dylan...

[DGR]

David B,

No offense was taken - my comments were aimed at the thread/forum in general...

My point is kind of supported by what you say though - i.e. you'd rather be rescued by the RNLI. If (big 'if') there is any 'spare' money in the RNLI, then affiliated organisations could benefit from the RNLI's training facilities, and the charity might assist (financially) in running these other organisations!!

If nothing else, it would mean that ALL the various volunteer services would get the opportunity to become as World Class as the RNLI.

A good thing?

D...

[DJL]

I think JK could have chosen a slightly better title for the thread. The RNLI should definitely be supported, but yes it is important to remember the other, smaller rescue organisations.

I do have some reservations about the smaller operations though. Training for one. But also technical backup. Take the Cowes lifeboat; they recently have had to replace their engines because of water ingress - not a cheap problem. I doubt this would happen with the RNLI as all the kits would be tested before being put into operation.

I would strongly disagree with the comments about the RNLI volunteers being amateurs. They are highly trained and extremely good at what they do, which according to any dictionary classes them as professionals - how can they not be if they are world leading?

[chrisallse]

I agree DGL there are THOUSANDS of people alive today because of the bravery of RNLI crews we should continue to support them but dig a bit deeper if we want to support other organisations.

[Dirk Diggler]

All very swish, but couldn't savings have been made somewhere?

[gavin]

Cant really believe what I am reading here,
How could it make sense to divert funds from the RNLI to local Rescue groups when we have the coverage around the British Isles that they have given us today.
True its easy to come on here and bash the RNLI , but where are we when the individual fund raising branches have their AGMS, open to us all , for free, each fiscal year, an Ideal forum to voice your misgivings , and challenge the branches face to face, to the people who raise , lodge and have some control over the finances and operation of the stations.
As boaters we are under the illisuion that we are fantastic contributors to their collections, but that is not the case atall.
As boaters we certainally have the loudest opinions on how the charity is run, and what they do badly, we have a right to its our money that makes the RNLI tick!
Well this is definately not the case, the real money comes from branch events and efforts, bequests, flag day collections, pub collections, boxes in pubs, and shops, etc events, local group efforts, race nites and so on.
With the 4 waterfront boat clubs in Dun Laoghaire they do contribute, valuable and all as it is, in the overall scheme of things , contributions from the boating fraternity is not good atall.
Another misconception people have is about the wealth of the RNLI, this needs to be dispelled. Post sept 11 2001 and the resulting dip in the equity markets, saw the institutions reserves drop from 5 years to 14 months.We can all shout the odds about the RNLI ,they have been with us for 180 years, have they been getting it so wrong for so long?
Who is doing it better?
Who is as well trained, funded, supplied and maintained?

Can people seriously come on here and tell me its a bad thing to build a new headquarters, that having out grown the previous one it would have made better sense to rent a bigger one and waste money with rent paying.
Surley its more prudent to build something you can cost, finance and own, it then becomes infrastructure for the future of the Charity, a capitally appreciating asset, saving such a waste of rent?
We can be sure of one thing its easy to come on here and critise
but who has the coverage, and the professionals and the equipment to do the job better?
I have a personal insight into the finances of one branch, the events organised by yacht clubs, are often outweighed by sponsered walks from childrens schools, who live miles from the sea, in the case of Dun Laoghaire if it was deemed appropiate to divert the boating fraternitys contributions to a local Rescue unit, it would never even get off the ground, and I suspect the same in other areas.
As boaters we dont have the deepest pockets, we just shout the loudest.
You only realise how valuable something is when you dont have it.

Gavin Power Dun Laoghaire Fundraising Branch Hon Treasurer

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by gavin

Cant really believe what I

So shocked that you can't finish the sentence?

John

[gavin]

My line hung up, I have the post edited now

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by gavin

How could it make sense to divert funds from the RNLI to local Rescue groups when we have the coverage around the British Isles that they have given us today.

Because the independent lifeboat organisations are in more urgent need of the funding

As boaters we are under the illisuion that we are fantastic contributors to their collections, but that is not the case atall.

the real money comes from branch events and efforts, bequests, flag day collections, pub collections, boxes in pubs, and shops, etc events, local group efforts, race nites and so on.

With the 4 waterfront boat clubs in Dun Laoghaire they do contribute, valuable and all as it is, in the overall scheme of things , contributions from the boating fraternity is not good atall.

Which all make it even more important to put our limited contributions where they are most urgently needed

Another misconception people have is about the wealth of the RNLI, this needs to be dispelled. Post sept 11 2001 and the resulting dip in the equity markets, saw the institutions reserves drop from 5 years to 14 months.

The RNLI is still extraordinarily well funded. Most independent lifeboat organisations run on very limited budgets and don't have any reserves at all

Who is as well trained, funded, supplied and maintained?

Which is my point exactly. The other organisations need the money more urgently.

I have a personal insight into the finances of one branch, the events organised by yacht clubs, are often outweighed by sponsered walks from childrens schools, who live miles from the sea

Again, my point precisely. The RNLI has access to this type of fundraising that other organisations don't have.

If the amount of money that boaters raise is so insignificant, why are you so bothered about my suggestion?

By the way I've not addressed any of your points about people criticising the RNLI because I haven't criticised them!

John

[roohairy]

As JK has said, the smaller rescue services have much smaller budgets and need our support too. The two that I am familiar with (Humber Rescue and East Sutherland) both came about due to local people finding a 'hole' in the coverage provided by the RNLI and doing something about it, and I say they need our support too!

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by chrisallse

I agree DGL there are THOUSANDS of people alive today because of the bravery of RNLI crews we should continue to support them but dig a bit deeper if we want to support other organisations.

But we won't, will we? How many people are going to pay an RNLI subscription and give the same amount again to another lifeboat charity?

Anyway, even if you are prepared to double your contribution I'd suggest sending the whole lot to your chosen independent lifeboat because that's where the money is most urgently needed!

John

[Keith Hart]

So then, back to my original question...why are we relying on charity to support the national maritime rescue services anyway?

Keith Hart

[Alan Priddy]

When does a charity stop being a charity and become a business? I believe that the RNLI are at this position now and should look at how they should support the "smaller rescue stations". The RNLI is and always will be the premier rescue service but in this ever changing world of requirments it might not be the best charity to support. Keith Hart has a point and perhaps we should lobby the goverment to convert our armed forces into a charity so they can spend the money how they like. At least we will know where and how out taxes are being spent! Alan P

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by Keith Hart

So then, back to my original question...why are we relying on charity to support the national maritime rescue services anyway?

Keith Hart

This is probably a good thing. Step back from the "emotional" reaction... either way the UK population pays for it. But whilst it's a charity, it avoids political manipulation (from Westminster, anyway) and is master of its own destiny. Also compare the RNLI to the French (government funded) rescue service - they will give you a bill for rescue, and as some forum members know, they aren't as effective as the RNLI.

Maybe the NHS would run better as a charity - large numbers of people already "go private" by choice, so why not restructure the whole health service funding model so that it can be run as well and as efficiently as the RNLI?

As far as the 14 independent rescue services are concerned, why don't they relinquish their independence and become absorbed by the administration and funding of the RNLI? Surely this would benefit everyone, giving these stations better funding, and the coastguard a single point of contact for organising rescues.

[David B]

Originally Posted by gavin

Cant really believe what I am reading here,
How could it make sense to divert funds from the RNLI to local Rescue groups when we have the coverage around the British Isles that they have given us today.
True its easy to come on here and bash the RNLI , but where are we when the individual fund raising branches have their AGMS, open to us all , for free, each fiscal year, an Ideal forum to voice your misgivings , and challenge the branches face to face, to the people who raise , lodge and have some control over the finances and operation of the stations.
As boaters we are under the illisuion that we are fantastic contributors to their collections, but that is not the case atall.
As boaters we certainally have the loudest opinions on how the charity is run, and what they do badly, we have a right to its our money that makes the RNLI tick!
Well this is definately not the case, the real money comes from branch events and efforts, bequests, flag day collections, pub collections, boxes in pubs, and shops, etc events, local group efforts, race nites and so on.
With the 4 waterfront boat clubs in Dun Laoghaire they do contribute, valuable and all as it is, in the overall scheme of things , contributions from the boating fraternity is not good atall.
Another misconception people have is about the wealth of the RNLI, this needs to be dispelled. Post sept 11 2001 and the resulting dip in the equity markets, saw the institutions reserves drop from 5 years to 14 months.We can all shout the odds about the RNLI ,they have been with us for 180 years, have they been getting it so wrong for so long?
Who is doing it better?
Who is as well trained, funded, supplied and maintained?

Can people seriously come on here and tell me its a bad thing to build a new headquarters, that having out grown the previous one it would have made better sense to rent a bigger one and waste money with rent paying.
Surley its more prudent to build something you can cost, finance and own, it then becomes infrastructure for the future of the Charity, a capitally appreciating asset, saving such a waste of rent?
We can be sure of one thing its easy to come on here and critise
but who has the coverage, and the professionals and the equipment to do the job better?
I have a personal insight into the finances of one branch, the events organised by yacht clubs, are often outweighed by sponsered walks from childrens schools, who live miles from the sea, in the case of Dun Laoghaire if it was deemed appropiate to divert the boating fraternitys contributions to a local Rescue unit, it would never even get off the ground, and I suspect the same in other areas.
As boaters we dont have the deepest pockets, we just shout the loudest.
You only realise how valuable something is when you dont have it.

Gavin Power Dun Laoghaire Fundraising Branch Hon Treasurer

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

During Cowes week the Cowes inshore lifeboat is not allowed to raise money as the RNLI is the beneficary of the event.....how fair is that.

two years ago Cowes ILB was the nominated charity and year before that it was RNLI
each year Scandia life nominate a charity to benifit from fund raising
eg sea scouts cancer charities and so on
Cowes ILB ARE SUPPORTED BY ALL THE SAILING CLUBS IN THE AREA and
hold auctions like rib net and are supported by Benzies of COWES jeweller
president is Alan Titchmarsh of tv fame so they do ok, a point to mention
when RNLI are training in the Solent they are SAR CAPABLE
tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk