DON'T support the RNLI . . .

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by Jonny Fuller

That Kennett bloke will do anything to get the RIBnet ratings up

Like I need to!

John

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by Keith Hart

I am interested in the WHY. WHY do we have to rely on charity in the first palce for our maritime rescue? How did this happen?

I don't know but I suspect that it is because only a small minority of the poulation put themselves in a situation where they are likely to need to be rescued at sea. Fire, Police and Ambulance are all rather more universal so are centrally funded.

Just a guess . . .

John

[Keith Hart]

JK, yes it is an idea but there are plenty of people crossing the ENGLISH channel every day.

So any RNLI historians with the answer please?

Keith (still awaiting an answer) Hart

[chrisallse]

You might be interested in these pics of a new prototype lifeboat taken a couple of weeks ago in Dorset.

[BrendanS]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Here are some candidates you might like to consider:

Hamble Lifeboat
http://www.hamblelifeboat.org.uk
John

A recent event I helped organised with the help of MDL raised a fair amount of money for them, over £1000, and we did similar event last year. I thought it wouldn't make any difference until someone pointed out it was equal to decent % of their running costs for a year. Haven't read all the posts in this thread yet, so may be repeating, but these guys do a thoroughly worthwhile job, and I wouldn't complain much if they happened to turn up to help my out, and not sure they are any less professional than the RNLI

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by Keith Hart

Keith (still awaiting an answer) Hart

Keith, you are the official RIBnet sleuth so get to work!

John

[Windchill]

Not read all the posts, but I was advised some years ago by my wife's grandfather (2X RNLI Silver Medals to boot) NOT to fund the organisation as they were almost over funded, and top heavy. There was, if I recall correctly, a time when their charitable status was in jeapordy?

[Mark Halliday]

Originally Posted by Keith Hart

Hmmm, interesting one this.

I am interested in the WHY. WHY do we have to rely on charity in the first palce for our maritime rescue? How did this happen?

Keith (here are some brackets for fundraising (( Hart

Keith
Is it because Mr Darling and his daughter Grace thought it might be the charitable thing to do when they rowed out into a bit of a lumpy North Sea to help some guys who had bumped/ were about to bump in to the rock where they had a big light?
The RNLI have a huge head start on all the independants, with regard to fund raising, and maybe one day the independants will catch up.

Which brings me on to Trinity House. I only learned last thursday that they are not funded by the Government. 6000 lights and bouys and 71 lighthouses all for free to us small boat owners.

I am fully in favour of supporting anyone who will come to my aid if I need it. The only time I have needed help, it was given by a very nice bloke in a Gin Palace. I spent several days tracking down his boat and then him so I donate a bottle of good single Malt to his booze locker.

I have also had one experiance of independant recue services in the solent. We (and several others) were dismasted during a race. Without being asked, 2 separate rescue craft were in attendance within a very short time. We had quite a job getting them to understand that we did not require assistance, and that advice, such as starting our engine, was NOT the best course of action.
I am afraid my oppinoin of them, is, that some but not all, are of the well meaning sort of people who will stop to let you pull out into a main road from the right without considering the stream of traffic coming towards them, and the 20 cars behind who have had to break sharply to avoid someone who has suddenly stopped for no reason.
Rant over.

So, please give generously to your local independant rescue service and the RNLI. They all need equipment and training. And (hopefully) we will not need them.

[Allen]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Unlike the £274,000 that the RNLI spends every day, relatively small amount of money can make a big difference to these independent organisations. In most cases every penny that is donated will go directly to providing the rescue service. Only 80% of the money donated to the RNLI goes to the operations budget, the remainder going on fundraising and admin.

John

So that's about £1200 per lifeboat station per day for a lifesaving capability up to 50 miles offshore anywhere off the coast of the UK or Republic of Ireland 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 12 months a year - in all weather. Pretty good value I would say.

Interesting discussion, but unfortunate thread title which appears to create a division between the RNLI and all the others. I for one am prepared to be rescued by anyone no matter which organisation (if any) they belong to, I would just hope that they do it quickly! At the time I wouldn't even give a thought to whether they know what they are doing, that would only enter my head later when recovering and thinking 'what if......'

We should all give to whichever organisations we feel are relevant to ourselves. I give to the RNLI and although there are no independent lifeboats in my part of the world I have made donatoins to a couple in the Solent area.

The RNLI is not the wealthiest charity in the world as suggested in an earlier post, and not even the wealthiest in the UK. Its finances are broadly in line with other large national charities.

The National Trust raises about £150 million a year, and the NSPCC manages £100 million. The RSPCA gets through approx £84 million.

All hold substantial reserves and have seen the value of those reserves plummet as the stock market fell. They also saw them rise as the stock market rose in previous years. If 'gambling' of this nature offends you try finding out what has happened to the value of your pension fund or even the National Insurance Fund from which your state retirement pittance may be paid in the future.

I don't think that the RNLI was ever in danger of being de-registered as a result of having large reserves. From memory all charities have to justify their reserves policy to the Charity Commission as being in keeping with their type of operation. The RNLI did this. The RSPCA aim to hold a reserve of £60 million.

The World Wildlife Fund blow 15% of their expenditure on fundraising and a further 7% on administration. Similar figures to the RNLI. Rather than make a donation would I be making best use of my money by instead buying a tin of PAl and give it to my local stray dog? That would be 100% effective - no admin, no advertising. But hang on, I haven't taken the value of the tin in to account, so I'm not giving 100% value to the dog. Sausages, that's the answer. But maybe the nutritional value to the dog is less, so the tinned food would be better. Oh sod it. I'll just give the money to the WWF and let them worry about it

What else. The prototype lifeboat is a Tamar Class boat and will be the replacement for housed slipway Tynes.

I've run out of time to address some of the other points raised, but may do next time!

Allen

Lifeboat Operations Manager,
Peel, Isle of Man

[Biggles]

I am afraid my oppinoin of them, is, that some but not all, are of the well meaning sort of people who will stop to let you pull out into a main road from the right without considering the stream of traffic coming towards them, and the 20 cars behind who have had to break sharply to avoid someone who has suddenly stopped for no reason.


Aren't they annoying.

[Ribald]

Keith, according to the introduction to the book Riders of the Storm by Ian Cameron (The Story of the RNLI):-

"About 180 years ago an idiosyncratic Quaker, Sir Willam Hillary, founded a charity dedicated to the "Preservation of Lives and Property from Shipwreck". It's boats were few in number, were powered and often steered by oars, and could only operate close to the beaches from which they were launched. Its affairs were managed - none too efficiently - by a conglomeration of part-time aristocratic patrons"

I also thought that Grace Darling had something to do with it but perhaps she was the first recorded rescue.

On further reading, GD had no connection with the Shipwreck Institution apart from the fact that it gave her a medal. Yet she is still regarded as the personification of the sort of gallantry associated with lifeboat crews

[gavin]

Grace Darling and her dad were involved in a rescue, he was a lighthouse keeper.They rowed from the rock they lived on in extreme weather to lend assistance to a shipwreck

[seatreks]

Lets take a vote support the Rnli or not.

I GIVE THEM A BIG THUMBS UP
so thats one thumbs up from me
and one thumbs down for John ( i hope he never needs them)........1 each
whos next.

[DepSol]

Originally Posted by seatreks

Lets take a vote support the Rnli or not.

I GIVE THEM A BIG THUMBS UP
so thats one thumbs up from me
and one thumbs down for John ( i hope he never needs them)........1 each
whos next.

Same here Sorry John but I need them mate and already they saved some rellys of mine so ery grateful.

[Allen]

Originally Posted by Ribald

Keith, according to the introduction to the book Riders of the Storm by Ian Cameron (The Story of the RNLI):-

"About 180 years ago an idiosyncratic Quaker, Sir Willam Hillary, founded a charity dedicated to the "Preservation of Lives and Property from Shipwreck". It's boats were few in number, were powered and often steered by oars, and could only operate close to the beaches from which they were launched. Its affairs were managed - none too efficiently - by a conglomeration of part-time aristocratic patrons"

I also thought that Grace Darling had something to do with it but perhaps she was the first recorded rescue.

On further reading, GD had no connection with the Shipwreck Institution apart from the fact that it gave her a medal. Yet she is still regarded as the personification of the sort of gallantry associated with lifeboat crews

In the early 1800s lots of ports had a lifeboat of sorts. You could say they were all independents

Along came William Hillary (resident of Douglas Isle of Man) and rounded them all up to form a national organisation which has grown in to the RNLI that we know today

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by seatreks

Lets take a vote support the Rnli or not.

I GIVE THEM A BIG THUMBS UP
so thats one thumbs up from me
and one thumbs down for John ( i hope he never needs them)........1 each
whos next.

I hope I never need them. I hope you never need them too. I hope you never need the services of an independent lifeboat either!

Have you actually read this discussion, or did you just read the subject and fly off the handle? Judging by the abusive email you sent me I suspect that might be the case, because I give the RNLI a big thumbs up too. If you take the time to read what's been said, you'll find I haven't said a word against them.

I am rather saddened by the attacks on the independent sector, mainly it seems by people in some way associated with the RNLI. I can understand that where people are closely associated with a lifeboat station or fundraising branch they are likely to be a bit defensive, but it seems to be at the expense of rational thought.

Talk of fast cars and buckets of water and buying food for stray dogs (don't get me started on animal charities ) doesn't really help anyone cause. A bit of mutual respect would go a long way! Suggesting, as Gavin did, that the independents are poorly funded and therefore not worthy of support beggars belief.

By Allen's calculations each RNLI station runs on an average of £1200 per day. PER DAY! By anyone's standards that is well funded!

Let's do some sums. If every registered member of RIBnet (lets say 1500 for simplicity) currently gives the RNLI say £50 a year, that represents £75,000 per annum. Like Gavin says, against the total RNLI budget this is of almost zero consequence. That same £75,000 put towards the independent sector would make a big difference.

So I stand by what I have said.

If you're going to donate money for a lifeboat. Put some thought into it and really make it count.

The RNLI do a fantastic job. The independent lifeboat organisations do a fantastic job. The RNLI are very well funded, the independents are not.

Nothing personal, nothing to get angry about, just a way of really making a difference.

John

[Ewan]

Hi John,

Well you have started an interesting debate!

I'll come clean from the outset, I am employed full time by the RNLI and deal with volunteer crew on a daily basis. These views are my own and NOT an official RNLI response (and Ewan ain't my real name either!)

My view of private inshore rescue stations (shared by many of my colleagues) is that they are an important part of the overall rescue network. This 'network' also includes the RNLI's 232 lifeboat stations, HMCG (MRCCs, helicopters and the Auxiliary Coastguard), the Royal Navy, the RAF, the Merchant Navy and leisure users. Most private inshore rescue stations operate to very high standards and rely on exactly the same type of volunteers as the RNLI does. They are to be commended for the work they do, but because they are local and not national, their work is usually only recognised locally rather than nationally. This usually also means that their funding is raised locally rather than nationally as well.

I happen to enjoy a good relationship with a number of private rescue stations and have personally assisted them with the supply of boats and kit (ex-RNLI stock) and put them in touch with suppliers who will give them a good deal. I also know that a number of RNLI staff are volunteers with private rescue stations as well, Cowes being a good example. Many people in the RNLI are happy to work for the RNLI and help out with private stations, and don't see any contradiction in that. It's all about saving lives at sea!

One of your contributors made the point that if the RNLI had a lifeboat in some locations, then there would be no need for the private station. Sure, but by the same token, the RNLI cannot justify the expense of setting up a new station if there is a perfectly adequate resource in place already. Believe me, this is carefully considered in the equation when we open new stations. What sometimes happens is that a private station approaches the RNLI with a request to be taken on as an RNLI station. Sometimes the RNLI says yes, sometimes no: it depends on the existing pattern of cover.

On the subject of the new Training College..........yes, it does look a bit Gucci, but one of the drivers for building it was to save money. Yeah, you did hear that bit right! Reason being that accomodation costs for crews coming to Poole was becoming ridiculous. Anyone that knows Poole knows that accommodation for large groups is pretty limited, and the various guest house owners knew it as well, especially in the summer, when, to put it bluntly, we were being screwed! One reason for the college being the size it is, is because it has 60 bedrooms to overcome this problem. The other financial rationale for the College is that a lot of the courses will be sold externally to generate income, with very preferential rates being given to other rescue organisations. We would hope to see a lot of the private rescue stations taking advantage of these courses, in the same way that overseas lifeboat services will use them.

In terms of being wasteful, forget it! I used to work with the MoD and the RNLI could teach any government department how to operate on 50% of their existing budget. One example of this came back to me from a volunteer crewmember who was the junior partner in an architect's office, and wanted to bid for an RNLI build project. His boss told him to forget it, because "the RNLI is tighter than a gnat's chuff and you never make any profit out of them!"

Yes, the RNLI is a big organisation and the sums involved are huge, particularly to the guys trying to run small, private rescue organisations. But, in my experience, the money is well spent. I firmly believe there is enough room and business for all of us, but I don't think that encouraging people to not support the RNLI helps anyone in the long run. It is a difficult call: is saving lives at sea more important than, for example, the work of the NSPCC? OXFAM's work in Africa? HIV/Aids charities? It's all a matter of personal choice. So is supporting the RNLI.

[Andy Gee]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

I hope I never need them. I hope you never need them too. I hope you never need the services of an independent lifeboat either!

snip

If you're going to donate money for a lifeboat. Put some thought into it and really make it count.

I do give it a lot of thought, where I am (Clyde Area) we have only RNLI boats and are very well served by them and their crews, I am grateful to know that if, and I hope never, the shit hits the fan I can call on them and ask them to possibly put their lifes in danger to help me out, for which I am thankfull and do donate (to the station not the central fund)

I am not to clued up on the Independent Lifeboats and gather that they are based where the RNLI do not feel the requirement for a boat....is this correct? if so then I would agree with John that perhaps if you are in an area served by these boats you should perhaps donate some money to them as opposed to the RNLI.

Andy

[Andy Gee]

Originally Posted by Ewan

One example of this came back to me from a volunteer crewmember who was the junior partner in an architect's office, and wanted to bid for an RNLI build project. His boss told him to forget it, because "the RNLI is tighter than a gnat's chuff and you never make any profit out of them!"

I agree with that having done some civils work for them they do carry out a very "competitive" tender process
Andy

[Allen]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

I am rather saddened by the attacks on the independent sector, mainly it seems by people in some way associated with the RNLI. I can understand that where people are closely associated with a lifeboat station or fundraising branch they are likely to be a bit defensive, but it seems to be at the expense of rational thought.

It is a perfectly natural reaction to be defensive about any organisation you choose to be involved with, but that does not cloud rational thought, and it seems to me that those of us who have been open about our involvement with the RNLI have actually been very positive about the independents. As Ewan rightly says, we are all in the rescue business, and the most important factor is that any rescue is carried out quickly and effectively by someone.

By Allen's calculations each RNLI station runs on an average of £1200 per day. PER DAY! By anyone's standards that is well funded!

Not necessarily JK. Think rationally - it depends on what you have to do with that £1200. Your NHS gets through millions of pounds a day. Is it well funded?

Allen