dry suits?!?!?!

[BassBoy]

A Mac

Thanks for the advice. I hadn't thought of using your 'duvet technique' to keep me afloat.

I already own a variety of PFD's, including a suitable one for my re-cycled hemp, dry suit. (very warm but it leaks a bit)

Because I am so safety conscious and because I live VERY close to the sea, it won't surprise you to know that I also have a special PFD that I wear to bed. You never know when you might be hit by a rogue wave in the middle of the night or when you might be caught on a journalists camera.

Mrs BB is a very understanding young Hazel, so she doesn't mind too much.

Peace and love to you all.

[Leapy]

Originally Posted by JSP

Looks like I'll need to get myself a 275N then.

Just going down the drysuit route myself...but have a 150N crewsaver automatic inflatable lifejacket. Can the 150N be converted to a 275N just by changing the inflation canister or is it more complex than that?

[BassBoy]

NO. It will go bang I think! I'm sure there will be a more thorough explanation along soon.

[Leapy]

Originally Posted by BassBoy

NO. It will go bang! I'm sure there will be a more thorough explanation along soon.

[Pete7]

One thing to be aware of with a drysuit is you need to avoid getting hot and sweaty when launching boats, because you will be cold later on, especially at this time of year. That insulation under a drysuit isn't going to work if your wetter than a wet thing.

Pete

[chewy]

It will if you buy a decent thermal liner like Musto that wicks away any moisture.
During the summer it looks as though my suit is leaking as the outside of the liner is damp but the inside is dry!

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Thumperbob

... stopped using my Henri Lloyd neoprene gloves and switched to Sealskin (merely a tradename ) - layers of wool, ...
Have still to find a solution to the warm feet issue -

Bob - are your feet getting wet? sealskin (and others) do socks too - which are popular with mountain bikers for keeping feet warm when its wet. Alternatively are you wrapping them up so much you are cutting off the circulation?

[dougcrock]

we use marinepool floatation suits with 50N bouyancy plus when deemed neccessary a 150N lifejacket these suit seem to give the best of both worlds are easy on and off We have been useing them in all weathers since 1995 try www.marinepool.com or pm me for details

[Leapy]

Originally Posted by SeaSkills

Absolutely.

There is another point to consider. What is less well known in this context is that if you're wearing the extra buoyancy that a drysuit/wetsuit/survival suit provides, you actually should wear a lifejacket with greater buoyancy than otherwise (probably a 275N jacket rather than 150N). There are two problems that come with extra buoyancy in the wrong place. One is that the extra buoyancy that comes with air around your legs causes your lower body to float higher in the water, and that changed body attitude pushes your head further back and your airways aren't held clear of the water in the same way. Second, the air trapped inside (and the same can apply to oilies) can be caught around your back and make it hard - maybe impossible if the wearer is unconscious - to correctly turn you face up in the water

Your choice of PFD needs to be informed by what you're wearing

I emailed Crewsaver for their view on this...which is, that a Crewsaver 150N lifejacket is good with their drysuits. Quote from Crewsaver "We suggest 275N jackets for Ocean going and when wearing many layers of foul weather gear"

[SeaSkills]

Originally Posted by Leapy

I emailed Crewsaver for their view on this...which is, that a Crewsaver 150N lifejacket is good with their drysuits. Quote from Crewsaver "We suggest 275N jackets for Ocean going and when wearing many layers of foul weather gear"

I agree with the Crewsaver suggestion that a 275N jacket is appropriate for ocean-going and when wearing many layers of gear, and I'll stand by my view that it is also appropriate when wearing clothing that provides additional buoyancy.

I think that most people would agree that Mike Tipton of the University of Portsmouth is generally recognised as the UK's prime authority on survival at sea, and his work on understanding why we have too many immersion deaths resulted in his view that it is because of:

- poor knowledge and understanding of the hazards, resulting in poor standards and inadequate equipment
- inadequately prepared and equipped individuals
- design and integration of PPE
- unrealistic testing of equipment resulting in over-estimation of performance (how many people know that tests are normally conducted by the manufacturers in relatively warm and calm indoor pools, with unclothed or normally clothed subjects?)

Tipton reminds us that "it has been known for many years that the buoyancy distributed throughout immersion suits can negate some of the beneficial characteristics of a lifejacket". In fact, the degree of variability of performance in the equipment tested was as much as 10-fold)

The recent investigation into the tragedy of the Ouzo found that although all three of the yachtsmen who died were wearing lifejackets, 2 were found drowned with their heads submerged, suspended by the armpits from the waiststrap of their LJs which were not fitted properly. In the 3rd victim the LJ fitted better but was still found floating nearly vertical with his airway submerged.

Our experience with simulating unconscious casualties has been that a 150N jacket cannot be guaranteed to turn the casualty face up with airway clear of the water when the wearer is dressed in a drysuit or floatation suit

[RichardB]

Originally Posted by Pete7

One thing to be aware of with a drysuit is you need to avoid getting hot and sweaty when launching boats, because you will be cold later on, especially at this time of year. That insulation under a drysuit isn't going to work if your wetter than a wet thing.

Pete

This is a really good point. The most unpleasant 'cold' experience I had was after spending a cold wet evening in a gale working as foredeck crew (on a raggy thing). I was wearing 'proper' 3 layers of synthetic fleece fully wicking and full gortex gear (added up to well over £1k's worth of sailing clothing!). While I didn't get much water inside the gear from the waves (bit damp in the neck area and up to the elbows) I was totally drenched with sweat after about 6+ sail changes and gybes in 3 hrs followed by an interesting tussle with a spinnaker in 35kts. As the outer gear was thoroughly wet on the outside from incessant rain, the breathability was much reduced and I got really chilled and really tired and just couldn't get warm. Normally, I never have a problem with the cold. Eventually, I realised I was about to get into big trouble and had to take to a bunk with sleeping bags and took about 6hrs to rewarm.

Made me think a lot more about hypothermia afterwards and I'm much more wary of my crew getting into similar trouble now.

A drysuit would have made no difference at all in that situation.

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by Thumperbob

Have still to find a solution to the warm feet issue - currently using layered socks under the latex boots with neoprene outer boots. Any ideas anyone?

Make sure you're not too tight with the boots. Restricting blood flow to the feet causes them to go cold really fast.

Might try a few sprinkles of crushed red pepper in the socks, too. Mountaineers say it works wonders. Not sure about hypothermia effects though.

jky

Edit: sorry, quoted wrong post.

[BassBoy]

Jyaski

Great tip on the chilli powder. I'll give it a try at the weekend but it might turn my drysuit into a complete and balanced, nutritious meal!

[Thumperbob]

Many thanks for the tips - will give it a go this weekend (if the gf doesn't mind me dragging her back out a cold Loch...)

[gtflash]

Seems dry suits are really part of a WHOLE outfit! thanks all for feedback.

I want to get more winter boating in, id also like a few sets of crew outfits for those less prepared coming on my boat....... I always check out offshore jacket and salopet delas but recently considered getting dry suits instead... Biggest question is are they wearable over ordinary clothes or is it better to just get some waterproofs so people can hop off boat without 15 changes of clothing. To be honest with less experienced people aboard its only going to be local coastal cruising and the odd pub lunch

[Poly]

Originally Posted by gtflash

Seems dry suits are really part of a WHOLE outfit! thanks all for feedback.

I want to get more winter boating in, id also like a few sets of crew outfits for those less prepared coming on my boat....... I always check out offshore jacket and salopet delas but recently considered getting dry suits instead... Biggest question is are they wearable over ordinary clothes or is it better to just get some waterproofs so people can hop off boat without 15 changes of clothing. To be honest with less experienced people aboard its only going to be local coastal cruising and the odd pub lunch

Yes wearable over normal clothes. But for the sort of trip you are planning to take guests on I would say not necessary, and may be a bit off putting. Also think you'll find it easier to get waterproofs to "fit" random guests rather than dry suits. Bear in mind though that you might be drier and cosier than your guests if you are dry suited.

[JSP]

Yeah the problem with having spare drysuits for guests is with the neck and wrist seals. What will be too tight for some will be like a wizards sleeve to others. I'd go with Polwart's advice

[jyasaki]

DUI (a drysuit company in San Diego) makes what they call Zip Seals. The suit is modified with rings at wrists and neck that allow seals to be removed and replaced in the same manner as a ziplock bag. Not exactly cheap, though (the wrist seals are something like $65 a pair; neck seal is closer to $130), and as of now, they are not retrofitting other manufacturers suits.

Someone else has a system for temprorary wrist seal repair in which a large plastic ring is attached to what remains of the old seal, and a new seal is stretched over and held in place with large rubber band (similar to a vacuum cleaner belt.)

And, as far as a one-size-fits-most solution, going with dry gloves instead of seals would eliminate the wrist seal problem altogether. Won't do much for the neck, though.

jky

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by SeaSkills

Tipton reminds us that "it has been known for many years that the buoyancy distributed throughout immersion suits can negate some of the beneficial characteristics of a lifejacket". In fact, the degree of variability of performance in the equipment tested was as much as 10-fold)

The recent investigation into the tragedy of the Ouzo found that although all three of the yachtsmen who died were wearing lifejackets, 2 were found drowned with their heads submerged, suspended by the armpits from the waiststrap of their LJs which were not fitted properly. In the 3rd victim the LJ fitted better but was still found floating nearly vertical with his airway submerged.

It doesn't matter in the slightest HOW their lifejackets were fitted - they had been in the water for 12 hours in one case. Far more important than incorrect fitting lifejackets was their total inability to summon help. Their bodies had been in the water for 36hrs before they were found!!!

As to lifejackets and drysuits/floatation suits etc I do wonder if they can cause more problems than the worth of it. You don't see many surfers wearing lifejackets do you?

I agree an unconcious person won't be righted but a concious one MAY be better off without a lifejacket if ther is enough air in their suit.

[BassBoy]

There are also a number of people who are alive today because they were not wearing a seat belt in an RTA! How many I don't know, but I would bet it's less than were saved by wearing one.

There's a rather chilly ash in the garden that needs a hug. I'm off !

(educate,....... don't legislate ......sorry to quote the RYA ,but it's the right idea)

Peace and Love to you all