Duties £$£$

[MeMe]

Hi chaps,

I've been after a Medline II for some time and have finally found one in France. If I make the purchase, what duties can I expect to pay when bringing her home on the back of my car ? She's 2nd hand and around the £14,000 mark (yet to be negotiated).

Could one keep quiet, cross ones fingers and hope for the best or, should one (not from a moral standing only a legal one) declare the same ?

Any thoughts or experiences ?

[Richard B]

Originally posted by MeMe
Could one keep quiet?

Not now you've told the world

You need the original purchase receipt - showing VAT paid. If the vendor can't produce this (assuming that the boat was originally purchased after a certain date) then probably time to bale out from the sale. I don't know about duty - surely this not applicable within the EEC? You could ring the HM Customs and Excise help line on 0845 010 9000 who deal with all of this stuff.

I always thought boats (and particularly RIBs) looked expensive in France, or is it the case that Zodiacs are so common over there that there's an over-supply of 2nd hand ones?

[gavin]

Normally Vat dosent apply when purchasing second hand unless the Vendor was VAT registered as a company and made the initial purchase and didnt pay but deferred the VAT until time of sale, this is unlikely , the VAT has to be paid once in the EEC an advertised price should include the VAT unless stated,, ensure your reciept shows no VAT as secondhand, or price includes Vat in which case its up to the Vendor to deduct that piece of VAT and pay it to the Revenue, good luck

[Richard B]

Yes, but you need to be careful when moving goods across boundaries. You need to be able to prove that VAT was originally paid (obviously within the EEC) otherwise you will be charged VAT at HMC&E valuation as if the goods were from outside the EEC. All this is subject to being "caught" of course!

Other reference points HMC&E website http://www.hmce.gov.uk/ and the RYA probably have info on this as well. Also look out for helpful articles in the yachting/motorboating monthly magazines.

[MeMe]

Thanks chaps, I knew I could rely upon the forum for assistance. I've just shot off another email to the vendor requesting further advice regarding his purchase, vat paid etc and what documentation he has. I'll also pop onto the Customs site.

It remains early days, however, I'll keep you posted.

Re the price of RIBS in France. I can't really comment other than to advise that if the one I'm looking at turns out to be as it's described, I'll be paying the right price, no more no less - in my opinion of course. Unfortunately, the Medline II is a pretty rare RIB for the the U.K waters.

If anyone can point me in the direction of one, there's a large drink in it for you £....

[Alan]

Talk to John Harvey at TL Harvey in Darlaston, West Mids. They are Zodiac dealers and might have a second hand or ex demo boat that might suit you.

[Richard B]

Hmmm... his ex-demo Medline 2 makes that French 2nd hand one look expensive.

Maybe Alan could claim that large drink you mentioned?!?

http://www.tlharvey.com/marine/zodiac.htm

[Bilge Rat]

MeMe i'd just get over there buy it and bring it back on the ferry or eurostar and say nothing, no one will really care unless of course the boat is stuffed full of cigaretes or heroine, or you start making a big fuss about what should i be paying or what paperwork do i need !! after all you dont have to re register the boat like a car do you ! make sure you have a bill of sale from the vendor though in case you do get stopped but to be honest customs are not looking for people buying a second hand boat in France and bringing it back to the UK are they

[MeMe]

My thoughts mirror the devious of you

TL Harvey, thanks for the link. I know them well down there, they're pretty useless to be honest. A pal of mine called in response to an ad for a Medline I Club advising that he would come at the weekend and part with his cash. All he wanted was a few reassuring answers to some simple commercial and boat spercific questions. Following 4 calls from both him and me, they never called him back, sent email pictures or bothered to assist in any way. They lost £12k and he bought elsewhere.

I believe that although they're a big Zodiac dealer, their main source of income comes from elsewhere (salvage).

Anyway..... I'll keep you posted.

[MeMe]

Well, 5 minutes on from my previous posting I though I'd give them the benefit of the dout. I called and was greeted with "oh yes sir we have one of those in stoke" - "oh sorry sir, no we don't" - "hold on, yes we do" - "no, no, sorry, no actually we don't" !!!!

It was the same story last time ! Further, it's up at £16k which is really at the upper end of the scale for such a RIB especially given it's an ex demo and it's winter.

[Alan]

Tl Harvey are primarily a car salvage business - their facility at Darlaston is not the prettiest to be sure. I personally have had good service from them - we bought a Merc Optimax from them for our DS21 a few years ago and they were by far the most competitive in price and we got an excellent service from them too both in installation and follow up. Try getting ahold of John Harvey directly as he's the boss man.

(Note I have no axe to grind for or agin them I'm merely a satisfied customer!)

[paul691601]

hi,
i import cars from the eu (secondhand).
i have never been stopped at customs and asked to provide proof of vat .
BUT and this is just to help you whilst running the gauntlet at dover .
i was stopped with a seadoo speedster boat and asked to provide documents .
they went away for 10 minutes and came back saying that i had to pay £1500 taxes .
when i told them to unhitch the trailer and boat and keep it they went away again and came back 5 minutes later and told me to go .

very much a game of luck !!

most items over 1 year old will not even get a second glance .

good luck and let us know how you get on ..

[gavin]

Was it new or secondhand

[paul691601]

under 12 months old .

[MeMe]

Thanks for the GOOD advice. However, I've decided that "if" I'm able to get the Med II I'll declare everything to customs and the vat man. It's the right thing to do and I feel morally bound to pay whatever duties are due.

Someone's told me there's a v.a.t man on the forum.....

[Bilge Rat]

I've heard stories about people bringing cars and boats back and spraying them with mud and after a 500 mile road trip the thing does not look very new anymore, then they sail straight through customs without a second glance, think MeMe your opening a whole can of worms declaring everything and what might seem like a bargain now wont be after you've paid customs and the tax man for everything they think you owe them. I'd run the gaunlet and plead ignorance if you get stopped !!

Rat

[MeMe]

Don't worry Bilge' I'll be running the gauntlet alright. I have no intention of giving anything to anyone. Is it not enough that we pay the highest........oppps I was going to get all political then but this is not the place.
To be frank, getting the Med II from France is a bit of a pipe dream. I'm just itching to get my hands on one as soon as possible but really I know the best thing to do is wait for one to appear here in the U.K. In the meantime, I continue to enjoy the Med I which, still has a little way to go before she's full equipped to the standard I'd like. Once there, that's when I'll really step up a gear in my search for a Med II.

I was just saying to someone the other day, half the enjoyment for me is ticking off the boxes on the lengthy list of things she needs and taking ones time in getting there. When I had my previous rib (Zodiac Yachtline 420 DL) I went out and bought everything within the space of a month. She then sat on the drive complete, leaving me wondering what to to with her next. I ended up selling her just to be able to do it all over again, however, this time I've been taking my time. I think we're all a bit like that, aren't we ?

Another point raised in the same conversation was, "when the wife gives me the go ahead". I laughed because, that's not a unique statement, I bet if asked most of the chaps (chapesses) on the forum would admit to the fact that half the battle is convincing the wife that "it's the right thing to do" !



Come on admit it

[Charles]

Errrr, why are you so fixated about a MED II? There are some super ribs being built in Guernsey I just happen to know about, and pretty keenly priced too - and new, exactly to your spec.

[MeMe]

I'm not quite fixated.....well yes I am I suppose, however, it's a little like asking a saab, mercedes or even a volvo driver why they always return to the brand when there are other great products available.
I dunno the answer to that really, I just like the Zodiac brand, the Med range and although to a lesser degree but still obviously important, price. I would also add to that, ignorance and by that I mean, I've not bothered to really look at what else is available.

[Richard B]

Originally posted by MeMe
saab, mercedes or even a volvo driver...always return to the brand when there are other great products available.

And these guys will never enjoy the BMW or the Porsche!