Ejected From SR4!!!!

[JSP]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

For normal leisure use on a powerboat there is no advantage to a manual, and no significant disadvantage to an auto.

What about when you fall in when launching? Not that I've done that and anyone that claims to have seen the event happen will be dealt with.

I wear a manual due to me always getting wet when launching but given my health it really is a stupid choice. Do they do those kits to change a manual to auto on Typhoon LG's?

And Gibbo, glad you and your Girlfriend are OK mate.

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by JSP

What about when you fall in when launching?

Then depending on the circumstances it will either be a bit of a nuisance, or save your life!

I wear a manual due to me always getting wet when launching but given my health it really is a stupid choice. Do they do those kits to change a manual to auto on Typhoon LG's?

Don't know about an upgrade kit, but maybe you'd be better off having a look at your launching technique!

[JSP]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Then depending on the circumstances it will either be a bit of a nuisance, or save your life!Don't know about an upgrade kit, but maybe you'd be better off having a look at your launching technique!

Erm excuse me!....
That's better,
sorry about the smell.

Launching a heavy SR5.4 with flooding hull, on a very shallow slip, with a bottom made of silt, sh!t and fish guts that you sink into. Means getting wet as you have to walk the bugger out a bit before you can get the motor down.

[gibbo500]

Originally Posted by neilda

That post bought back some memories for me - and I'm very glad to read that you were both OK.

I came out of my boat in July and dislocated my shoulder in the process, I am not young and fit and had I not been wearing a life jacket, I wouldn't be here now. And I'm really not exaggerating. I'm still having physio which acts as a regular reminder!

After the accident, I did a couple of things.

1. I replaced all my manual jackets for auto inflates. I managed to inflate my manual jacket in the accident - but figured that auto was going to be safer in the future.

2. I always wear a kill cord (you did too - thank God), but I didn't wear one in my accident. My own stupidity.

3. Always give a safety briefing to anyone who comes aboard.

Really very glad to read you were both OK, your post really made an impact on me having been involved in something similar.

I had always thought that chine walking crept in, I've been on the edge of it and backed off immediately... didn't know it could suddenly appear....

Neilda

On the way back in, i did think about your incident and do remember the discussion about kill cords and for me the importance of that really stuck in my head from that day onwards. I was not going to post about the day as yes i did feel a tw*t but more importantly i think alot is learnt from other peoples misfortunes or mistakes. The expert views and opinions from this forum will hopefully prepare not just me but everyone if it was to happen again or to them.
I am no expert but i am reasonably confident in my ability, (Intermediate PB, day skipper, VHF, First Aid) and have racked up a number of hours on the water which to me is more important than any qualification, and i had safety kit on the boat. In a way i am glad for that experience as it just makes you realise what can go wrong even in favourable conditions, i think we all become complacent over time and think it will never happen to me? I am afraid it can happen at anytime!!!!

As i originally posted i wasn't after sympathy or anything but thank the forum for the messages of concern.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

One of these?
http://www.outdoorstore.co.uk/products/bothy%20bags.asp
Looks like a handy bit of kit, but a £2 orange plastic survival bag would probably be just as good for most people!

Yes - having used both I would much rather have the bothy bag - the effect of heat sharing is surprisingly effective - whereas to achieve that in an orange survival bag requires you to get quite intimate. I suspect one of the major benefits is that your head in enclosed which brings us nicely back to the earlier point! I also see the bothy bag as a bit more preventative whereas whilst you could use a survival bag that way - people tend not to. Perhaps because they are a bugger to pack away again. I've sat inside mine to have lunch in a hail storm and to read maps etc - and the moral boost is significant.

I think my current one cost about 15 quid, and I bought it to take on a three day mountain bike trip - where it took up less space and weight than us each carrying a survival bag - I've used bigger ones that will fit 7 or 8 people in the past. It fits three people (just) and so can keep multiple people warm if you manage to tip everyone in the sea. But of course a cheap survival bag will suit many people if survival is the sole objective.

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by JSP

Launching a heavy SR5.4 with flooding hull, on a very shallow slip, with a bottom made of silt, sh!t and fish guts that you sink into. Means getting wet as you have to walk the bugger out a bit before you can get the motor down.

You paint such an appealing pixcture! Sounds like you may not fit into the "normal leisure use" category . . .

[neilda]

Originally Posted by gibbo500

Neilda

On the way back in, I did think about your incident and do remember the discussion about kill cords and for me the importance of that really stuck in my head from that day onwards. ..........

I think we all become complacent over time and think it will never happen to me? I am afraid it can happen at anytime!!!!

We all learn from each other I guess - what makes me anxious about chine walking is that you can ALL be thrown into the water. Those who have been dramatically thrown in the drink will attest to the fact that it's quite scary, particularly when injured as you feel so much more vulnerable. When all passengers are in, it adds a new dimension - even more so without the kill cord as some of you could easily be hit by the giant blender.

I'm glad my experience might have made you think twice about a kill cord, I'm a moderate evangelist on the subject these days!!

Our hobby is such a delight, but the dangers lurk not far away.... my accident was on a beautiful summer day, it would have seemed ludicrous if someone had forecast the drama ahead.

Auto jackets seem very sensible, I saved a few bob with manuals, but very quickly changed to autos.

Is your girlfriend as keen on boating as she was before?

[gibbo500]

Originally Posted by neilda

Is your girlfriend as keen on boating as she was before?

Yes she is fine, she was a bit narked she lost her favourite sunglasses though

[captainpugwash]

Actually gentlemen the colour is very very relevant.
Now as you know leisure boaters follow SOLAS V regulations for all leisure craft under 150GT, however in the commercial world IACS (International Association of Classification Societies) are having a current discussion on just the subject of colour and this is what they say.

1 IACS notes that the version of paragraph 1.2.2.6 of the LSA Code currently in force at the

time of submitting this document requires all life-saving appliances prescribed in this part to be of a highly visible colour on all parts where this will assist detection;
but it is expected that on 1 July 2010 resolution MSC.207(81) will amend this requirement to6 be of international or vivid reddish orange, or a comparably highly visible colour
on all parts where this will assist detection at sea;
So in the commercial world colour is very relevant

That is why most mooring bouys are bright orange, so you can see them easily from a distance.

That is why when you are being rescued by a helicopter you should be using an orange hand held smoke flare.

And if you also put the very expensive scotchlite reflective tape on your orange stuff (and also your Gecko helmet) you will be seen by radar from miles away.

Merry Christmas to you all.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by captainpugwash

Actually gentlemen the colour is very very relevant.
Now as you know leisure boaters follow SOLAS V regulations for all leisure craft under 150GT, however in the commercial world IACS (International Association of Classification Societies) are having a current discussion on just the subject of colour and this is what they say.

1 IACS notes that the version of paragraph 1.2.2.6 of the LSA Code currently in force at the

time of submitting this document requires all life-saving appliances prescribed in this part to be of a highly visible colour on all parts where this will assist detection;
but it is expected that on 1 July 2010 resolution MSC.207(81) will amend this requirement to6 be of international or vivid reddish orange, or a comparably highly visible colour
on all parts where this will assist detection at sea;
So in the commercial world colour is very relevant

That is why most mooring bouys are bright orange, so you can see them easily from a distance.

That is why when you are being rescued by a helicopter you should be using an orange hand held smoke flare.

And if you also put the very expensive scotchlite reflective tape on your orange stuff (and also your Gecko helmet) you will be seen by radar from miles away.

Merry Christmas to you all.

And since Gibbo is not opperating commercially all rather irrelevant. The purpose of the bag is to keep you warm. Its highly distinctive colour is of little significance when returning to shore to rewarm a casualty - although granted if you find yourself needing to attract the attention of a lifeboat or helo it might help - but then your inflated l/j is bright orange too.

What makes you think that Scotchlite tape increases radar cross section?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by gibbo500

Yes she is fine, she was a bit narked she lost her favourite sunglasses though

That will be why she went quiet on the way home
I'd look into RW's offer - the wimen in peterheed don't wear sunglasses (owing to the fact that the've never seen the sun).

[chewy]

Originally Posted by Polwart

And since Gibbo is not opperating commercially all rather irrelevant. The purpose of the bag is to keep you warm. Its highly distinctive colour is of little significance when returning to shore to rewarm a casualty - although granted if you find yourself needing to attract the attention of a lifeboat or helo it might help - but then your inflated l/j is bright orange too.

What makes you think that Scotchlite tape increases radar cross section?

Given the choice would you buy a black survival bag or an orange one for use on a boat?

[Channel Ribs]

Having read through this thread I have decided to replace all of my lifejackets with autos.

I had previously believed that so long as there was another form of primary buoyancy being worn, like a dry suit, then a manual was the better choice.

However as I read through I thought back, even though we are out in most weather and regularly get well covered in spray/rain, there is no time when I think that an auto would have gone off by mistake. This includes launching and or generally splashing about.

Just my 2p.

[alystra]

Originally Posted by JSP

Launching a heavy SR5.4 with flooding hull, on a very shallow slip, with a bottom made of silt, sh!t and fish guts that you sink into. Means getting wet as you have to walk the bugger out a bit before you can get the motor down.

Not wanting to butt in here, but... Could you not use an oar, boathook, or piece of stick, or something, to punt your way into deeper water, thus keeping dry and less smelly?

You'll have thought of that, I suppose.

[Knot Yet]

Originally Posted by malthouse

However as I read through I thought back, even though we are out in most weather and regularly get well covered in spray/rain, there is no time when I think that an auto would have gone off by mistake. This includes launching and or generally splashing about.

Just my 2p.

On that note - on our interesting voyage last weekend when we did get very very wet - both auto life jackets were fine - I think you probably need to totally submerge them to get the auto inflate to work

J

[Poly]

Originally Posted by chewy

Given the choice would you buy a black survival bag or an orange one for use on a boat?

On a sunny day a black bag may warm up quicker (like dark tubes!). I think you are arguing for the sake of it now. They way you worded it originally implied that orange was the best colour rather than the most commonly found colour:

Plastic survival bags that are orange might be better.

I used to have a yellow bag which worked just fine. An orange one is perfectly fine. You get some metallic coated ones which may actually be even better if they are robust enough. I'll leave it there is was meant to be a bit of a cheeky comment not a matter for significant debate

[Avocet]

All the previous threads ignore the fact that there are two different types of automatic life-jackets:

a) the Halkey Roberts which relies on a chemical reaction with water to trigger the CO2 inflator. This can (in theory at least, although I have never heard of it happening) be triggered by a large wave or merely falling into shallow water (eg a puddle).

b) the Hammar which is a pressure activated trigger and requires the lower part of the jacket (where the activator is) to be at least 10cms under the water so as to develop the required pressure. These will not be accidentaly deplyed by a soaking but should be triggered in the event of immersion. I have, however, heard several stories of them failing to activate where people have gone into the water - possibly insufficient depth of water to create the pressure needed.

Both the above types can of course be activated manually if required (ie prior to abandoning ship).

All our jackets have the Hammar type which seem to me to be the most appropriate for open ribbing where there is always the possibility of water coming into the boat without necessarily wanting life-jackets deployed.

[gibbo500]

Whilst on the subject of life jackets, how many actually carry out regular checks? When i checked mine a month ago i noticed the gas cartridge on one of the jackets was very loose, i dont know if this would have prevented the inflation but you never know? Also i think to manualy inflate (via mouth piece) once in a while is good practice for a number of reasons, one to check there is no damage (holes, split seams) and it willl hold air but also to familiarise with the operation if ever the need arose. I think that deflating in the water with cold hands could be tricky with using the attached end cap inverted. Anyone experienced this?

Actually i am sat in front the computer with my LJ on, in regards to deflating probably not as difficult as i initially thought. however i am more aquainted with how the thing works now than what i was a couple days ago

[Poly]

Gibbo - my L/Jackets are quite often sitting for weeks at a time without being used, and can be sitting in the back of the car getting vibrated around a lot so I check the cylinders every trip. Make sure if you do this you also check the manual pull cord is outside the cover when you put it all away - I discovered recently during a "safety briefing" that I went to say "if it doesn't inflate pull the toggle " and the toggle wasn't there... you don't want to be swimming around going "shit the auto inflate hasn't gone off, its ok I'll pull the manual override" and then "oh shit the toggles not where I expected!".

I manually inflate with a pump through mouthpiece and leave overnight once a year. Its a long time since I've deflated a L/J in the water but I don't remember a problem.

[captainpugwash]

Originally Posted by Polwart

And since Gibbo is not opperating commercially all rather irrelevant. The purpose of the bag is to keep you warm. Its highly distinctive colour is of little significance when returning to shore to rewarm a casualty - although granted if you find yourself needing to attract the attention of a lifeboat or helo it might help - but then your inflated l/j is bright orange too.

What makes you think that Scotchlite tape increases radar cross section?

Hello Polwart, good to hear from you again.
I use radar every working day and have very relevant and practical experience of it and its capabilities.
If you put two orange marker bouys in the water, one with reflective tape and one without, then fine tune your radar to the Fishnet setting (if you have it) then you will see the difference on the screen immediately.
The bouy without will maybe show as a feint signal in calm weather if you are lucky.
However, the bouy with the tape on it bounces back a very strong target signal in most sea states.
When you are in very dense fog this makes life very simple indeed.
Is it time for my whisky yet?