Filling Rib Tube with Nitrogen vs. Air

[davemon]

We're in a warm tropical (wet) location with intense tropical sun. We recently emptied the tube and re-filled with nitrogen. Like they do with tennis balls nowadays... It helps with stress on the tube as nitrogen is more dry and inert than compressed air and expands less in the hot sun.

However we still have issues with mold in the hypalon rubber; hoping the nitrogen might "starve" it. It's a little unsightly and we wonder if it's degrading the rubber...

Any thoughts on how to eliminate mold from rubber(hypalon)?

Golden Cowry,

https://profiles.google.com/101053888109376129346/about

[Cookee]

I think we need lots of photos of your location to make any further comment on your post!

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by davemon

However we still have issues with mold in the hypalon rubber; hoping the nitrogen might "starve" it. It's a little unsightly and we wonder if it's degrading the rubber...

The hypalon is the outside layer of the boat fabric. The inside is generally a layer of neoprene. You should be looking for a neoprene compatible fungicide.

If you're talking about mold growing on the outer layer (as you mentioned unsightly, and I doubt you're sticking your head in the tubes very often, especially when inflated), then what you use to fill the tubes won't make any difference, as the outside is exposed to air.


jky

[95gstnj]

I was wondering about using nitrogen as well, my tubes inflate and deflate significantly over the course of a day. 35 deg at night, and possibly 85 deg during the day. How well does the nitrogen help?

[chewy]

I wouldn't do it, if someone vents the tube and gets a lung full they could end up dead, the person who filled the tube and didn't warn them could end up getting their arse felt.

[Matt]

Do you often inhale, fully, the air from your toobs? That is a very strange fetish!

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by chewy

I wouldn't do it, if someone vents the tube and gets a lung full they could end up dead, the person who filled the tube and didn't warn them could end up getting their arse felt.

A lung full of N2 wouldn't kill you, at worst you'd feel a tad faint.

[patos]

I use helium. That increase the speed about 5 knot. The boat really fly now

[BogMonster]

Originally Posted by patos

I use helium. That increase the speed about 5 knot. The boat really fly now

Plus if you breathe in the entire contents of the tubes you could do an awesome Donald Duck impression

[davemon]

For Cookee,

http://www.kwajaleinscubaclub.com/
http://www.smdc.army.mil/rts.html
http://www.googleearthcoolplaces.com...rshall_islands

For jyasaki,

If you search/scan the forum way back there are many discussions about this topic but mostly in relation to which gas is more apt to "leak" out or expand. Although the inner surfaces are mostly impermeable, they aren't 100% impermeable, especially at the tube section seams. We see most of our mold problem around the seams... where there's a boundary between the rubber, the outside air and the fabric within. So, I'm not convinced by your suggestion. However, I did investigate a "moldi-cide" called Wet & Forget that gets accolades. I may try that.

For 95gstnj,

I think the Nitrogen helps quite a bit. My temperature range in the shade is 78-88F. But when the sun hits it here you could boil an egg on it. That's my main concern... I haven't gotten scientific about it - that would require me to refill with Air and make detailed measurements in varying conditions... but just using my pressure gauge and visually inspecting the bulge at the seams, I think it's an improvement. Besides, we aren't inventing this idea, many sporting goods/products are filled with nitrogen now, as well as auto tires, for this very reason. Hypalon is tough stuff, and Nitrogen isn't going to harm it.

For Chewy, Matt, Patos, Pikey Dave, Bog Monster,

We do have a tank of Helium next to the tank of Nitrogen - we save it for parties.

[willk]

IMO, this is not going to achieve your aims and you should stick with the fungicidal additive.

The Oxygen Factor - most plastics are O2 permeable, so the filling gas is irrelevant.

The Nitrogen Factor - with air being already 79% Nitrogen, will removing O2, a gas of not wildly dissimilar mass, really make a measurable difference to your tubes? I suspect not.

[Richard Selman]

This is what I calculate....

Pressure of a fixed volume of 1) Nitrogen and 2) air starting from 10 degC 0.1 barg heated in 10C steps to 50C

T P(N2) P(Air) Diff
10 0.10000 0.10000 0.000%
20 0.13980 0.13910 0.503%
30 0.17930 0.17860 0.392%
40 0.21870 0.21800 0.321%
50 0.25820 0.25740 0.311%

Nitrogen pressure rise approx 0.5% higher.

Peng-Robinson equation of state.

Richard

[Poly]

Originally Posted by willk

IMO, this is not going to achieve your aims and you should stick with the fungicidal additive.

The Oxygen Factor - most plastics are O2 permeable, so the filling gas is irrelevant.

The Nitrogen Factor - with air being already 79% Nitrogen, will removing O2, a gas of not wildly dissimilar mass, really make a measurable difference to your tubes? I suspect not.

But is it not the "dryness" which matters? Nitrogen just being a 'relatively' easy way to get a dry gas rather than trying to dry compressed air.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Polwart

But is it not the "dryness" which matters? Nitrogen just being a 'relatively' easy way to get a dry gas rather than trying to dry compressed air.

Sorry, I forgot to say, SCUBA grade air is very dry. This happens during the compression process, the water being vented from the compressor. They might well be "making" their own nitrogen on site, so I'd expect similar levels of moisture there too.

[chewy]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

A lung full of N2 wouldn't kill you, at worst you'd feel a tad faint.

A lung full of pure 100% N2 will kill you.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by chewy

A lung full of pure 100% N2 will kill you.

A single lung full? Being shut in an atmosphere of pure n2 yes, but one lung full no.

[chewy]

Originally Posted by Polwart

A single lung full? Being shut in an atmosphere of pure n2 yes, but one lung full no.

As a rule you take one lung full and fall unconscious, your then in that N2 enriched atmosphere and can't think, nah I don't like this so I'm off, result is you are dead.
Why do you think you don't stick your head in nitrogen purged vessels and use a gas monitor instead?

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by chewy

As a rule you take one lung full and fall unconscious, your then in that N2 enriched atmosphere and can't think, nah I don't like this so I'm off, result is you are dead.
Why do you think you don't stick your head in nitrogen purged vessels and use a gas monitor instead?

Can't argue against that in a pure nitrogen atmosphere,but to kill someone from venting a tube they'd have to be inhaling directly from the valve while it was venting.
They'd have to do it several times too,which would be pretty difficult and unbelieveably stupid.

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by davemon

For Cookee,

http://www.kwajaleinscubaclub.com/
http://www.smdc.army.mil/rts.html
http://www.googleearthcoolplaces.com...rshall_islands

We do have a tank of Helium next to the tank of Nitrogen - we save it for parties.

Looks like a fantastic place - I take you are US military then? I'm guessing that there isn't much to do around there except scuba and fish - although I am assuming both are pretty much as good as it gets anywhere?

[Poly]

Chewy,

You really need more than one lung full to fall unconscious. With one proper deep lung full you might start to feel a bit dodgy/weak - and probably pull away from the valve but not so bad you'd actually hit the deck. In terms of asphyxiation risk its no different from Helium which people inhale for fun to make them sound squeaky. I have actually seen someone pass out by breathing in Helium, direct from a valve (not on a tube!) but it took quite a lot of effort, and as soon as he hit the deck he was recovering (because the valve pulled out his mouth). There appeared to be no lasting effects although he was a bit thick to start with!

On an open boat, with tubes full of N2 you'd have to try really hard to pass out - and someone else would almost certainly have to force the valve into your mouth to actually suffocate you.

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Can't argue against that in a pure nitrogen atmosphere,but to kill someone from venting a tube they'd have to be inhaling directly from the valve while it was venting.
They'd have to do it several times too,which would be pretty difficult and unbelieveably stupid.