Finding boating buddies

[brucehawsker]

I am looking to expand the group of 10 or so who come out in my rib on an irregular basis during the year. The boat is based at Haven Quay in Lymington. We typically go out about 10am and explore parts of the Spent or beyond, have a pub lunch and sometimes tea at Yarmouth. If weather is bad we cancel and if we don't like what we see at the mouth of the Lymington river we may just go to Yarmouth for lunch! This is emphatically not a fast blast over the waves! We try to save people's backs. Ages typically late 40s to 70s. We go at the speed of the "slowest".

Any ideas of how to find new buddies? Web sites? Anyone interested in joining us one off or more often?

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

I am looking to expand the group of 10 or so who come out in my rib on an irregular basis during the year. The boat is based at Haven Quay in Lymington. We typically go out about 10am and explore parts of the Spent or beyond, have a pub lunch and sometimes tea at Yarmouth. If weather is bad we cancel and if we don't like what we see at the mouth of the Lymington river we may just go to Yarmouth for lunch! This is emphatically not a fast blast over the waves! We try to save people's backs. Ages typically late 40s to 70s. We go at the speed of the "slowest".

Any ideas of how to find new buddies? Web sites? Anyone interested in joining us one off or more often?

I take it you’ve sorted out your differences with the MCA?

[BigE]

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

...

Any ideas of how to find new buddies? Web sites? Anyone interested in joining us one off or more often?

Lymington Rumor Control Facebook group. Although I may have seen you post on there already if you're the same person offering RIB rides/company/trips out.

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by BigE

Lymington Rumor Control Facebook group. Although I may have seen you post on there already if you're the same person offering RIB rides/company/trips out.

For sure!....THAT sounds JUST like our Pikey!

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Maximus

For sure!....THAT sounds JUST like our Pikey!

Eh? Lost me there Matt

[mhb100]

Why not post in cruising section if you have spare seats on a trip and go from there.

[boristhebold]

Anyone else confused by this post, im not sure if this is a simple looking for friends to join various trips post or looking for paying customers. Where is 'spent' never heard of that area before ? and whats the referrence to the MCA ?

[BigE]

I suspect Spent should have been Solent as he is marked as Lymington.

If brucehawsker the same person I think he is, he likes to go out in his boat and invite people along who just want to go out, any members of the public who are free and want to experience going out on the waves. From memory he asks for a contribution to petrol but doesn't charge. Just a way to get some company, reduce fuel bills and meet new people I think, nothing more sinister than that.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by boristhebold

.....and whats the referrence to the MCA ?

Keep up

Bruce has had his collar felt in the past

Interaction with MCA
http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread.php?p=771866

[brucehawsker]

I am trying my best not to fall foul of MCA. Hence my NOT ever posting on a public group such Lymington Rumour Control ever again!!! I am keen to comply with any of the rules - just as BigE has said. If people want to contribute to fuel costs as mates, that is fine. But it is not a condition nor are any prices (nor itineraries) fixed beforehand. I regard RibNet as NOT being a public forum and hence I am not breaking rules by asking people for advice as to how to widen my circle of buddies.

Would I however be breaking the rules do you think if i posted in the Cruising section?

Yes its Solent....

And yes, I have had good constructive meetings with MCA. Think things are fine there now, thanks for the interest.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

I am trying my best not to fall foul of MCA. Hence my NOT ever posting on a public group such Lymington Rumour Control ever again!!! I am keen to comply with any of the rules - just as BigE has said. If people want to contribute to fuel costs as mates, that is fine. But it is not a condition nor are any prices (nor itineraries) fixed beforehand. I regard RibNet as NOT being a public forum and hence I am not breaking rules by asking people for advice as to how to widen my circle of buddies.

Would I however be breaking the rules do you think if i posted in the Cruising section?

Yes its Solent....

And yes, I have had good constructive meetings with MCA. Think things are fine there now, thanks for the interest.

Glad you got sorted with the MCA. Just be aware however, that Ribnet IS public & frequently appears at the top of Google searches.

[willk]

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

I am trying my best not to fall foul of MCA...... If people want to contribute to fuel costs as mates, that is fine. But it is not a condition...

I can't help but wonder how many of your regular clients mates don't bother bunging you fuel costs?

I have the rather unusual privilege of being a commercial operation that regularly takes mates out for a day a sea - but at most, they shout lunch. That said, they enjoy the security of knowing that my vessel and my safety equipment has been fully serviced and inspected that year to DoT standards. They know that I am personally qualified in boat handling, first aid and safety at sea. In short - they know they are safe to bring their loved ones with them, just as my commercial clients do.

Personally, I see you as a "gimme a few quid and I'll take you for a spin" kinda guy. Not surprised the MCA are on you like paint. If you have an "incident" or a "mate" has an injury - you'll be toast. Your insurance company will hollow you out like a gourd....

[xpertski]

I don’t see a problem with people contributing, for example if I give friends a lift on a joint trip somewhere it’s usually polite for them to offer a contribution, I may say - would you mind contributing. It’s rare a friend would not see it fair to contribute to something they enjoy with you as their friend. Clearly the sea is a harsher environment but for me the principle still applies.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by xpertski

I don’t see a problem with people contributing, for example if I give friends a lift on a joint trip somewhere it’s usually polite for them to offer a contribution, I may say - would you mind contributing. It’s rare a friend would not see it fair to contribute to something they enjoy with you as their friend. Clearly the sea is a harsher environment but for me the principle still applies.

True, but if you then take that a step further & start advertising for “mates,” you would soon attract the attention of the local council & raise complaints from licensed private hire companies. It’s a fine line.

[xpertski]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

True, but if you then take that a step further & start advertising for “mates,” you would soon attract the attention of the local council & raise complaints from licensed private hire companies. It’s a fine line.

Yeah agree, probably use of “crew” as well. Seems all well meaning to me, just need careful use of words in the public domain to not get in trouble with the authorities

[Poly]

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

I am trying my best not to fall foul of MCA. Hence my NOT ever posting on a public group such Lymington Rumour Control ever again!!! I am keen to comply with any of the rules - just as BigE has said. If people want to contribute to fuel costs as mates, that is fine. But it is not a condition nor are any prices (nor itineraries) fixed beforehand. I regard RibNet as NOT being a public forum and hence I am not breaking rules by asking people for advice as to how to widen my circle of buddies.

Would I however be breaking the rules do you think if i posted in the Cruising section?

Yes its Solent....

And yes, I have had good constructive meetings with MCA. Think things are fine there now, thanks for the interest.

Bruce - ultimately only a court can decide whether the people you “meet” here are indeed your friends or not. You should however be aware that:
1. This is a public forum (and all sections are including the cruising section);
2. There are no restrictions on who can post here (other than a tiny handful who tried really hard to get banned), who can read post etc - you don’t even need to register to read posts;
3. Whoever you upset in the first place, who set the MCA on you is likely to find you here too.

You might have a stronger argument that someone is an “internet friend” if they are registered here also, especially if they were members before you posted your “advert”. Obviously it is possible to meet people here who do go on to ultimately become friends.

I’d be somewhat reluctant to just take any old total stranger on my boat, and certainly wouldn’t be courting internet randoms to join me. There’s some proper odd balls in this place - I’ve been on boats with some of them!

If I were a random who joined you with no pre-agreed fuel cost I might then be horrified when I discover that big ribs are less fuel efficient than a Ferrari. That might be the sort of thing which causes 3 above.

Personally I think the the legal debate about what parliament intended by the word friend, and how it should be interpreted in the internet era is fascinating and think it’s noble of you to continue in your quest to establish the case law ;-)

[mhb100]

Originally Posted by willk

I can't help but wonder how many of your regular clients mates don't bother bunging you fuel costs?

I have the rather unusual privilege of being a commercial operation that regularly takes mates out for a day a sea - but at most, they shout lunch. That said, they enjoy the security of knowing that my vessel and my safety equipment has been fully serviced and inspected that year to DoT standards. They know that I am personally qualified in boat handling, first aid and safety at sea. In short - they know they are safe to bring their loved ones with them, just as my commercial clients do.

Personally, I see you as a "gimme a few quid and I'll take you for a spin" kinda guy. Not surprised the MCA are on you like paint. If you have an "incident" or a "mate" has an injury - you'll be toast. Your insurance company will hollow you out like a gourd....

A bit harsh Will.

Somebody with a small group (10) letting it be known they have the odd seat from time to time seems to me what ribnet has been all about. This does not sound to me like a commercial setup, more advertising perhaps being taken a little out of context [even if there has been some other previous history]

I reckon most of us have ended up at some point on another person's rib, and most of us who understand the costs probably donate in some way without being asked. I see it as 'manners' and the right thing to do.

Whats the line? Turning up on a friend of a friend's boat and giving then petrol money would be wrong, but turning up with a 20l can or a meal voucher would not?

15 years ago I must have got my first rib net cruise, (on a boat that I did not know the owner but had read many of their posts and perhaps felt some association), and at the end of the day we all chipped in (as that was the normal thing to do at the end of the day) but I guarantee it did not cover the true running costs. Bet it happens most weekends.

Technically I should get anyone that goes on my rib (domestically) some form of disclaimer/waiver to complete and I should do the same on someone else's boat, in case a friend or a friends spouse decides to take legal action over some unforseen event. Does a friend really behave different than a stranger in this crazy legal world of ours? But I don't.

I guess it comes down to when does a client become a friend and when does an acquaintance become a friend, and if you are a friend then what's the friendly way to share the costs of your day out together?

I don't know Bruce, I guess I'll have to find out. Perhaps it could be the start of a new ribnet friendship. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.


PS if I become a ribnet friend (via rib net messaging) with Bruce I guess that mean I can act as a friend would without consequence?

[willk]

Originally Posted by mhb100

Somebody with a small group (10) letting it be known they have the odd seat from time to time seems to me what ribnet has been all about. This does not sound to me like a commercial setup, more advertising perhaps being taken a little out of context [even if there has been some other previous history]

I agree with both parts (my bold type) of your paragraph. I just don't think that the first part (= most RIBnetters) reflects what Bruce is doing (= second part). My lack of sympathy is largely because Bruce hadn't posted on RIBnet for years until he needed some advice about his run-in with the MCA. Once he sorted that out (by not publically advertising for rent-a-mates) he then used RIBnet to advertise for some rent-a-mates in the hope that the MCA would overlook it. IMHO, he's a chancer.

[boristhebold]

Ouch ... I think he will need a solicitor really soon as it sounds like he has done on this public forum exactly what may have got him in trouble last time. Really not worth the agro.

When ive had friends on my boat for a day ive never asked for fuel contributions or anything, they have offerred but normally ive just allowed them to buy me lunch etc. If they wanted to contribute with fuel cost I think that would be fine as I could certianly prove they were friends.

In this issue it feels as he is advertising for buddies in public to share the costs there is almost a semi commercial aspect as no prior relationship with these people and moneies it sounds like discussed upfront or at least understood what the arrangement would be which is then kind of a verbal contract that could be argued.

Best just stop it or the authorities may come down hard, I dont think they will be reasonable about it at all.

Perhaps he should get his boat coded and do the necessary training levels and then he could advertise cheap day trips etc.

[andyjcox1]

This thread raises some interesting points. My thoughts below are not addressing what anyone has done/not done but my impartial thoughts and ramblings.

In my mind, the key is the definition of a ‘friend’ in all scenarios.

The dictionary definition is ‘a person with whom one has a bond of mutual affection, typically one exclusive of sexual or family relations’

If we apply that to the scenario of advertising for boating buddies, it is hard to argue that if you advertise/ask for people you have never met to join you to share the enjoyment of a trip out on a boat are friends, unless you have either met or communicated with them before in order to form a bond of mutual affection. Without that, I believe that it remains a simple transaction i.e the person with the boat has something to offer (a trip) in exchange for company/crewing/shared fuel. The crew (buyer) gains something in exchange for crewing/company/Sharing fuel. That person is a potential friend as that trip may lead to a friendship. It may however lead to nothing and you never see each other again.

The answer seems to be, that to be a friend you must have built a mutual bond. How deep that bond is will be hard to qualify, however I suggest that in order for anyone to find boating buddies without the need for coding and commercial certificates she/he needs to create a ‘friendship’ first. Be this a meeting in the pub for a chat the week before or messaging on here/any other medium to get to know each other at a basic level.

I would suggest you can advertise specifically for boating buddies where the friendship is not based solely on them coming for a trip on your boat. Meet up regularly, chat about boats and whatever else. Then if you think ‘Bob’ is a good bloke, mention that next time you are heading out he is welcome to join you. If he shares fuel costs for the trip then bonus.

This is simply my interpretation and could be completely wrong.

Ps. It does beg the question how all these crew seeker websites operate. Perhaps there is an assumption a friendship is made prior to setting sail.