Flares

[Bern Hanreck]

I'm sure I'm going to get criticised for this , but it may just help somebody out one day so here goes !

I faithfully replaced my emergency flares this Spring because the old ones had just gone out of date . I've heard some stories about how flares can spew sparks etc all over your boat when used in earnest , so I took the opportunity last night of letting off my old stock . We ( my son , also a boater ) read all the instructions in the comfort of the kitchen , went outside and commenced the exercise . The first red smoke flare did exactly what it said on the packet . Vivid red flare , lots of smoke , lasted one minute . Great . The second orange smoke flare failed to go off at all ( expiry date June 2006 ) . Now the dodgy bit . Given that it was fireworks night , in outer London , several miles from the Thames , and thirty miles from the coast , I tried two parachute flares ( expiry dates Oct and Dec 2006 ) . I followed the instructions exactly but neither would launch at all .

I honestly expected that perhaps the odd flare would fail , but three out of four given the expiry dates , was a bit worrying . Anyone else like to comment ?

I keep my flares in a water-tight plastic container in the console during the boating season , and in a dry garage in the winter . Could condensation cause this failure rate ?

At the very least chaps , keeps your flares up to date , and try and keep them in good condition .

........stands back having lit blue touchpaper...........!

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by Bern Hanreck

Now the dodgy bit . Given that it was fireworks night , in outer London , several miles from the Thames , and thirty miles from the coast , I tried two parachute flares ( expiry dates Oct and Dec 2006 ) . I followed the instructions exactly but neither would launch at all .

As I guess you know, firing a distress flare without good cause is illegal.

Worse still, parachute flares are designed to keep burning well after they have come back down (supposedly in the sea). This means firing one on land is equivalent to starting a fire with incendiary explosives.

I would say that the people around you are very lucky that the parachutes did not fire. There is a photo on the net of a chap's boat in Southampton that was badly damaged by fire a day or so ago - when a para flare landed on it, he was lucky someone saw it and grabbed a hose; but the same would be true of a house, shed, car, hay-stack, etc etc etc.

[Andy Moore]

Originally Posted by Bern Hanreck

Now the dodgy bit . Given that it was fireworks night , in outer London , several miles from the Thames , and thirty miles from the coast , I tried two parachute flares ( expiry dates Oct and Dec 2006 ) . I followed the instructions exactly but neither would launch at all .

This is what might have happened!

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.p...Number/1635857

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by Andy Moore

This is what might have happened!

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.p...Number/1635857

And a link from the YBW thread:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/h...re/7078460.stm

The chap was found and has been charged.

[Pete7]

Used a couple of out of date hand helds a fortnight ago to light a bonfire in the garden. First a white went off okay but got hot very quickly and lots of sparks out of the end. Chucked it on the bonfire before it got too hot. Second a red didn't fire now I am holding a flare that has been struck but not ignited and could go off any second. Pulled the plunger out and struck it hard again then it fired. Decided they aren't fireworks, they do get hot, have lots of sparks and if it doesn't fire what are you going to do with an unstable explosive device ?

Looked over a yacht recently and found a set of leather gardening type gloves in the flare box, now I know why and intend to put a set in the box on the rib.

Pete

[fast fred]

this mite not work over thare cuzz no guns for yous but the flare gun is the way to go, never seen a flare gun shot fail no mater how old it was, gets it away from the hull,if ya lit off a hand flare on my hull i would have to toss you over the side before ya burnt a hole in my boat

[Poly]

Bern - ignoring the rights and wrongs of setting off distress flares when not in distress for a moment - what have you done to safely dispose of a partialy activate flare. Taking into account Pete7's observation that it is probably still live, just didn't detonate properly?

[J.C.]

I'll not bang on about the misuse of flares issue, just to say PLEASE don't do it! In addition to the safety issues mentioned already, the RNLI, coastguard etc will automatically be called out to a flare identified as a marine distress flare thereby wasting their time and possibly distracting them from a real shout.

On the issue of failing flares, in my work boats I carry three complete sets of flares for this very reason. Ridiculous that I need to, and expensive too, but given what I know about the failure rate I am just not comfortable with less. When on yachts I generally take my own set in addition to the one on board as another backup.

[The Garfish]

Originally Posted by J.C.

the RNLI, coastguard etc will automatically be called out to a flare

yorr rite

de ornchurch orlwevver bote ad 463 corl owts lasst nite

garF

[Biggles]

Strange that safety gear that is failing like this. I know its out of date but you wouldn't have thought so much would have failed. Which companies products are we talking about ? If its Pains Wessex thats the stuff used by the MOD and if anything like that doesn't work when its in date then their would be an investigation.

[J.C.]

Originally Posted by The Garfish

yorr rite

de ornchurch orlwevver bote ad 463 corl owts lasst nite

garF

Yeah, but only 724 of them proved to be genuine ;-)

[Bern Hanreck]

Garfie........The Cox told me that the last five miles were the hardest !

Poly..........Straight into a bucket of water . Checked this morning . They are breaking up but will stay in the water until completely destroyed.

Malthouse... Yep I expected the flak but what about the very serious angle of emergency equipment ( which just might be somebodies last hope ) failing when it's most needed . You are a chandler probably selling this gear . Do my comments not concern you at all ?

JC..... The middle of last October ( rem that Fireworks go on general sale about the 16th ) , amidst many other fireworks , I did see a parachute flare go up a few miles to the south of my house . I pondered for a moment , then rang Thames Coastguard . I told them where I lived and what direction the flare was from me . They politely thanked me , but I honestly got the impression ( right or wrong ) they thought I was bonkers . By the way , it was drizzling round my way last night !

I realise that this thread might be considered " controversial " but it was always intended to raise awareness of a serious potential problem.

[Downhilldai]

Originally Posted by Bern Hanreck

I realise that this thread might be considered " controversial " but it was always intended to raise awareness of a serious potential problem.

It succeeded.
Keep away from Essex on bonfire night

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by Bern Hanreck

Malthouse... Yep I expected the flak but what about the very serious angle of emergency equipment ( which just might be somebodies last hope ) failing when it's most needed . You are a chandler probably selling this gear . Do my comments not concern you at all ?

I am very concerned!

I collect my customer's OOD flares and regularly take them round to the local Coastguard (they have a shed near where I live called Langdon Battery), but I do not sell single replacements. I do packages of safety gear which include flares, but not on there own for several reasons.

As a boater I do worry about the failure rate of flares, but then electronics fail (except for Standard Horizon stuff) and mechanicals fail too - so I carry more flares than the minimum. I reccommend other people do that too, I suggest that the extra be stored seperately from the main lot.

Aside from the failure rate... There was a chap out single handed a while back, he was heading across the Thames Eastuary but the fog came down and he overshot (compass out and no gps). So, he called the Coasties and they said they would get a Lifeboat out to his estimated area. The 'Boat arrived a while later and they told him to fire his first flare, which he did - nothing seen. So they repeat this process all the while using direction finding to track his VHF signal, after they had still not found him in the fog they asked for a third flare - but he was out. In the end they found him clinging to a buoy off the French coast!

So in summary, Flares:-
are not fireworks,
are not guaranteed to fire 100%,
are not for fun.
are to be respected and treated with caution.

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by Bern Hanreck

JC..... The middle of last October ( rem that Fireworks go on general sale about the 16th ) , amidst many other fireworks , I did see a parachute flare go up a few miles to the south of my house . I pondered for a moment , then rang Thames Coastguard . I told them where I lived and what direction the flare was from me . They politely thanked me , but I honestly got the impression ( right or wrong ) they thought I was bonkers . By the way , it was drizzling round my way last night !

Not sure where you live, but if the flare was spotted well inland, would you expect anything less?

I am well aware of the false distress signal thing, but given the number of roman candles and such fired off around our fireworks holiday (4th of July; sorry, guys), I doubt that a marine flare over land would cause much of a stir (certainly no more than regular fireworks - how would you tell the difference anyway?) And, realistically, I would think the practice would be a good thing.

I've always shied away from handheld flares on an inflatable. Having never seen one lit, I was leery of the sparks and such. From Pete's description, it may have been a wise choice.

My inventory currently consists of: 6 expired aerial flares (non-parachute); 6 current aerial flares (non-parachute), 4 12Ga aerial flares, one handheld smoke signal, and 4 flourescein dye markers. There's usually a collection of submersible flashlights on-boaard, as well.

I would find the failure rate that Bern encountered to be troubling at the very least. Perhaps a call to the manufacturer? Your Coast Guard equivalent?

jky

[LURCHER]

Handheld red are great for destroying wasp nests !

[Tim M]

but then electronics fail (except for Standard Horizon stuff)

Not quite....

[hurricane]

the mount batten sailing centre in plymouth had a flare go off in one of its ribs the other week.... the bow of the boat is not a pretty sight anymore will try and get the pics off my phone

[Genie]

Good point Pete7

I also have a pair of cheap gardening leather gloves which i keep with my flare pack - definitely a good thing to have around when a flare is set off - the temperatures get obviously VERY hot and if you're holding one for 60 seconds you're going to get a serious tan on your hand if not careful.

On the point of condensation, I keep those little sachets of silica gel which help keep things dry in my flare tub to help minimise moisture.

I know Bern has done something which really should not have been carried out, but he does have a point on the failure rate which has raised the issue for the forum - for me, the lesson is to make sure they are all in date and to carry adequate amounts without being silly. In my pack I have 3 parachute 2 marker red, 1 orange floating smoke and 2 white collision. If they all don't go off, then I guess someone above has it in for me anyway, so whats the point of resisting? ;-)

I would imagine that Pains Wessex / Icarus et al conduct regular batch sample testing, so it may well be worth you while contacting them direct with your results Bern?

Cheers
Rob

[Downhilldai]

Originally Posted by Genie

I would imagine that Pains Wessex / Icarus et al conduct regular batch sample testing, so it may well be worth you while contacting them direct with your results Bern?

Yes - as a gesture of goodwill they may send you a new flare-pack.