Fleet review

scm · 21 March 2005, 20:10

Perhaps I am missing the point with regard to the ribs required for the above event. But why have rules for setting up commercial rib operations (council/MCA) when the QHM just changes everything and says you only need a PB Level 2 and no license to use your boat for a one off event?

Everyone would be up in arms if someone was running a boat that was not licensed and had no qualifications in the Solent. Yet we have people who have proved only recently what a level 2 qualification can do, no disrespect to those involved and they where brave enough to own up, but you can get a level 2 from age 8 (under an adult until 16). Do we think that one of the biggest water events in years is the right time to change the rules and allow very inexperienced drivers and there boats on the water. Have there boats been expected to the council/MCA standards? If not, why not.

I had to got through all the rules and regs to get where I am as did all other commercial operators, so why should up to 100 ribs be allowed to work just because its for the fleet review.

I think this is an accident waiting to happen and cannot be right.
SM

gingercoastie · 21 March 2005, 20:13

I think you will find that as the boats are operating in a marshalling capacity and not as charter/passenger/fare paying boats that the level of qualification can be decided by the organisor. After all it is the QUEENS Harbour Master

scm · 21 March 2005, 20:29

Quote:

You are working for QHM Portsmouth and acting under a warrant

They are working as they will be paid in kind (fuel etc) and it does not matter if it is the QHM. But you are happy that the QHM says it is ok, so it must be! So it does not matter that they are to marshall a small event like a fleet review! Won't be much going on. PB2 are you mad.
SM

tcwozere · 21 March 2005, 20:33

As an aside, I thought the lower age limit for a pb2 was 12, and 8 was for pb1..

Simon Hawkins · 21 March 2005, 20:36

Hi Stuart

I agree with what you are saying and have made this known to the organisers. I myself was one of the first people asked to do the event but this was asked last July. As you no I have been through the correct channels and am a commercial Skipper. While I accept alot of people may be capable of handling their boats it does become a different issue when surrounded by approx 10,000 spectator boats.

With regards to the MCA I hate to disagree with you but are these boats taking fair paying passengers and are they operating as safety boats ?

I have been briefed by the person organising the RIBS that the qualified people ie, Advanced comercial skippers will be responsible for a group of boats in a certain area.

I think the danger could be more to the charter boats due to the potententail liablity with all of the spectator boats, I can see many colisions happening. I myself am not planning on doing any charters for this reason. Cant afford to have an claim against me.

Speak to you soon.

tim griffin · 21 March 2005, 20:36

YUP you is correct Tony

tcwozere · 21 March 2005, 20:43

Thanks Tim..

You gonna be marshalling?

gingercoastie · 21 March 2005, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by scm

Do we think that one of the biggest water events in years is the right time to change the rules and allow very inexperienced drivers and there boats on the water. Have there boats been expected to the council/MCA standards? If not, why not.

Firstly you are making a gross assumption that every one of the hundred boats is going to be manned by "Very inexperienced drivers".

What would be the cost to have 100 charter ribs and their skippers out for 4 days on the water. Add that lot together and there would be no fleet review.

I don't like answering post like this because it seems to be pandering to the latest trend for antagonistic threads. If you have a problem raise it with the QHM and Richard who is organisiong the boats, and then come back to us with their take on the matter.

tim griffin · 21 March 2005, 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcwozere

Thanks Tim..

You gonna be marshalling?

Errrrrmmmmmmm !

NO

scm · 21 March 2005, 20:47

Hi Simon,
They are not taking fare paying passengers but by being employed by the QHM as a marshal I, (imho) think this would classify as being part of the safety team as a safety boat. Yes.
So because a group of say 10 boats has a commercial skipper looking after them they will be fine and the rules don't count?

tcwozere, you’re right sorry, was trying to make a point

SM

scm · 21 March 2005, 21:01

Quote:

Firstly you are making a gross assumption that every one of the hundred boats is going to be manned by "Very inexperienced drivers

I don't recall making any assumptions, it can be one boat out there and if it is not licensed or coded then it will not have been inspected either.

Quote:

What would be the cost to have 100 charter ribs and their skippers out for 4 days on the water. Add that lot together and there would be no fleet review.

And how much do think the fleet review is costing? Chartering commercial ribs for four days would be absolute peanuts in comparison, trust me on that one as a member of HM Forces. If you think that there will be no fleet review because of a lack of ribs then I think this is slightly misguided.

Please do not take any of my comments personally as I am only viewing my opinion. Yes I will be taking this up with the QHM and the RYA.
SM

Simon Hawkins · 21 March 2005, 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by scm

So because a group of say 10 boats has a commercial skipper looking after them they will be fine and the rules don't count?

SM

I dont think I said that did I. I said that I have my concerns the same as you and many others do, but what can you do to resource such a large amount of boats.

scm · 21 March 2005, 21:05

Mate,
Pay

Stu

tim griffin · 21 March 2005, 21:07

The MCA are asking all coded ribs to submit themselves for a inspection prior to the fleet review. Does anyone know why a further inspetion is required prior to this event , i expect alot of us are going to get boarded

tcwozere · 21 March 2005, 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by scm

tcwozere, you’re right sorry, was trying to make a point

SM

np, my eldest was reading over my shoulder.. And as I had told her when she was 11, she had to be 12, I just wanted the point clarified so I could make her read that..

Mark Halliday · 21 March 2005, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by scm

They are working as they will be paid in kind (fuel etc) SM

As I understand it we will have a contribution to fuel used. Is this being paid, in kind or otherwise? I for one don't consider it to be so. Only a fool would accept payment at less than cost, a lot less when time is taken into consideration. I think compensation is a better description.
For example:-
I took a couple of mates out for a spin the other weekend. We stopped for lunch and I toped off the fuel tank. My mates paid for this fuel. Was I being paid? Did this make the trip a charter?

scm · 21 March 2005, 23:07

Quote:

You are the front row marshals. You are working for QHM Portsmouth and acting under a warrant

Mark, agree with you are coming from but this is my whole point it is very iffy ground, imho. IE When you are a front row marshal and you hit another boat trying to keep the line are you just doing the QHM a favour at the biggest event on the south coast? Is your insurance going to see it as just this if there is damage, would the courts see it as compensation not pay if there was any legal claims due to an accident, god forbid. All reasons why a charter company has to get licensed/coded and pay for it.
SM

tim griffin · 22 March 2005, 08:19

While not wishing to get involved HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE TOLD YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY WHAT YOU ARE DOING ARE YOU COVERED FOR THIS TYPE OF THING PLEASE CHECK BEFORE SIGNING UP

Scary Des · 22 March 2005, 08:29

It was a commercial operator with a skippers licence that hit the Hythe pier

perhaps it is the people with so called 'experience' we should be worried about

. Des

CJL · 22 March 2005, 08:52

This is ridiculous.

I have done safety cover for hundreds of events around the UK and never ever had any problems. Some have been for a QHM, MCA and the RYA. In most cases the deal is simple, if you want and Advanced Powerboat Instructor, Senior Instructor, Advanced Powerboat Crew and Ribtec 585 at your event then you pay my car fuel cost, boat fuel during the event, food and if its an overnight event then I'd ask for accomodation too.

I consider this to be reasonable expenses, not payment, not profit. My boat is not coded but the insurance company is aware of this and do not have a problem with it.

And now all of a sudden I'm doing something wrong, or at least that's what the consensus of some people seems to be!

Most sailing events could not exist without people like me giving time and equipment freely.

I'd love somebody to clarify the situation. Not an opinion, the real situation!

Chris