Fog tips....!

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Jono Garton

If you detect a vessel

Jono - am I right in thinking that this rule applies only to vessels which are not in sight of each other (rule a) and which you detect by radar (rule d).

[Jono Garton]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Jono - am I right in thinking that this rule applies only to vessels which are not in sight of each other (rule a) and which you detect by radar (rule d).

Yes, but common sense would also say that if you do not have radar and you detect a vessel by sound you would stick to the same rule, as the other vessel may have radar and they would stick to this rule.

I have been in this situation with an Hovercraft.

Jono

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Jono Garton

Yes, but common sense would also say that if you do not have radar and you detect a vessel by sound you would stick to the same rule, as the other vessel may have radar and they would stick to this rule.

I have been in this situation with an Hovercraft.

Jono

Having not been in the situation - how easy to tell whether the sound is coming from each segment?

[Jono Garton]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Having not been in the situation - how easy to tell whether the sound is coming from each segment?

depends if it's a yacht or hovercraft, but I have spent allot of time (both on the sea and the RNLI's Simulator) in fog and you tend to get an instinct for it.

I did sh*t my self with the hovercraft craft coming towards me.


Jono

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Having not been in the situation - how easy to tell whether the sound is coming from each segment?

I find it fairly easy using my hand by my ear to shield a quarter at a time.

[Simon B]

Originally Posted by Jono Garton

Hi Simon

Imagine you are the blue arrow.

If you detect a vessel on your -
Starboard Bow
Port Bow
Port Quarter

You have 2 options, carry on your course or turn to Starboard


If you detect a vessel on your Starboard Quarter

You have 2 options again, carry on your course or turn to Port


If you get the toy boats from the bath, put the 2 boats in various situations and apply these rules it will make sense

Jono

Cheers, all clear now! no boats in bathroom, just full of stupid female crap duplicated multiple times per person, per manufacturer. Where a man would need say half a dozen different items in a bathroom a woman can quite easily justify 5 to 10 times this...not that I monaing!?

[Jono Garton]

Originally Posted by Simon B

, just full of stupid female crap

You should tell her to flush !

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Jono Garton

Hi Simon

Imagine you are the blue arrow.

If you detect a vessel on your -
Starboard Bow
Port Bow
Port Quarter

You have 2 options, carry on your course or turn to Starboard


If you detect a vessel on your Starboard Quarter

You have 2 options again, carry on your course or turn to Port


If you get the toy boats from the bath, put the 2 boats in various situations and apply these rules it will make sense

Jono

I am confused surely if you detected a vessel off the starboard bow you would not want to turn to Starboard?

[Avocet]

Originally Posted by Chris

I am confused surely if you detected a vessel off the starboard bow you would not want to turn to Starboard?

I'm with Chris on this one ..... and especially so if that ship detects you and also turns to starboard. That would surely put you on an almost certain collision course?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Avocet

I'm with Chris on this one ..... and especially so if that ship detects you and also turns to starboard. That would surely put you on an almost certain collision course?

Here are some scenarios:

If you both maintain course your paths cross and so depending on speed you collide.
If you turn to stbd you no longer cut his path (assuming you do so reasonably early and decisively -- but with radar thats possible).
If you turn to port you still cut his path, and so its all down to closing speeds.
If you do as suggested and turn to stbd and he also turns to stbd you will diverge unless you both left it way too late.

If you turn to port - then the other skipper may not be expecting that as its not the recommended practice in the col regs and so he turns to stbd as per the protocol and you end up still on collision course.

[Heart-trouble]

Originally Posted by Avocet

I'm with Chris on this one ..... and especially so if that ship detects you and also turns to starboard. That would surely put you on an almost certain collision course?

navigating in fog is dangerous! but everyone should have a basic knowledge of the rules (not word for word obviously) if rule 19 is obeyed by all vessels then there should be no problem, however there are many folk, even merchant navy officers who do panic in fog and the rules go out the window. you jus have to be ultra vigilant! so look up rule 19, learn it, jono's picture is spot on.

[neilda]

Yes that was a useful and easy to understand post and diagram. I have read Rule 19 too.

Hopefully I won't encounter fog, but I feel equipped to know how I should react and, importantly, how others would react.

[chewy]

I wouldn't say it was dangerous just not as easy as navigating in fine weather.

We will launch on exercise to get experience in fog. It doesn't bother me I can head in towards the shore and find out roughly where I am from whats at the bottom of the cliff and make my way home.
Dead reckoning is useful too.

[Jon.esp]

Originally Posted by chewy

I wouldn't say it was dangerous just not as easy as navigating in fine weather.

We will launch on exercise to get experience in fog.

When I was 10 or 11 my dad would from time to time when it was foggy take me out off Newhaven. One of the things he would do was to get me to cover my eyes and spin he boat about to disorientate me and then without the aid of a compass get me to point at the direction of the sounding horn at the end of the harbour wall. It wasn’t always that easy as fog amongst other things can distort sound.

I have gone on to learn over the years is that fog can be very variable. Sometimes patchy sometimes thick, some times you can see over it and on one occasion I was able to see under it.

And like all of us I am still learning.

Jon

[SeaSkills]

Originally Posted by m chappelow

i was trying to point out that its easy for novices to try keep on the safe side of things by adding a few deg in case they miss the point of intrest only then to be miles from where they want to be especially if its a wide estury and fog is causing disorientation .and not on about compass error ,but on that point make sure there is nothing going to error the compass keep everything well clear such as torch or radio anchor even the spare outboard ,regards mart

As an alternative view, I would actually advocate that people (not just novices) DO consider adding a few degrees if they are heading for an harbour, river mouth, estuary etc, and that they deliberately aim to MISS the point of interest.

Reasoning: it can be pretty tough to make a landfall perfectly in poor vis, and the technique of "aiming off" is a valid one. Instead off hoping that your navigation will take you exactly to the point you want, plan to make your landfall at a point where you know beyond any reasonable doubt that you will have to turn either left or right to reach the point you are heading for. Takes away a lot of doubt and worry when you close the coast. If you have a free choice, choose the safer side of your POI to head for

[m chappelow]

Originally Posted by SeaSkills

As an alternative view, I would actually advocate that people (not just novices) DO consider adding a few degrees if they are heading for an harbour, river mouth, estuary etc, and that they deliberately aim to MISS the point of interest.

Reasoning: it can be pretty tough to make a landfall perfectly in poor vis, and the technique of "aiming off" is a valid one. Instead off hoping that your navigation will take you exactly to the point you want, plan to make your landfall at a point where you know beyond any reasonable doubt that you will have to turn either left or right to reach the point you are heading for. Takes away a lot of doubt and worry when you close the coast. If you have a free choice, choose the safer side of your POI to head for

i agree seaskills ,though the point i was making is ,its easy for the unexperienced to put a safe side on,aiming off ,then after a while ,dont trust the compass get nervous and keep adding or subbing until they are totaly disorentated,,in our area of the north sea we get the notourious sea frets that can form in less than a min or two,one of the annoying ones is when you get a thick fret or fog with viz about 2 or 3 meters but a clear blue sky above ,you can stand up on the console or wheelhouse and have a view over the top for miles in places yet hardly see your own bow .,,for those that have a trumpet type fog horn, make a sleeve to go on the end and use the foot pump ,regards mart

[SeaSkills]

Originally Posted by m chappelow

i agree seaskills ,though the point i was making is ,its easy for the unexperienced to put a safe side on,aiming off ,then after a while ,dont trust the compass get nervous and keep adding or subbing until they are totaly disorentated,,in our area of the north sea we get the notourious sea frets that can form in less than a min or two,one of the annoying ones is when you get a thick fret or fog with viz about 2 or 3 meters but a clear blue sky above ,you can stand up on the console or wheelhouse and have a view over the top for miles in places yet hardly see your own bow .,,for those that have a trumpet type fog horn, make a sleeve to go on the end and use the foot pump ,regards mart

Aye, we get similar here. Bugger to find them when they get lost in it too, isn't it?

[m chappelow]

Originally Posted by SeaSkills

Aye, we get similar here. Bugger to find them when they get lost in it too, isn't it?

yes its great when you get a call over the radio asking have you see anyone yet ,and you reply back saying i can see my own boat lol

[willk]

Originally Posted by Simon B

Where a man would need say half a dozen different items in a bathroom a ....

Been thinking about this, ....what are the other three for?

[codprawn]

Talking of fog I saw on Coast earlier that most of the foghorns around the coats have been phased out. Is this true? It may not be so essential these days with GPS etc but still reassuring - especially to pleasure craft.

I know the one Mumbles still works - unless it was the Nash Point one as I heard it about 3 months ago. A wonderful but eerie sound.