Have Picton gone bust?

[tinker]

Originally Posted by malthouse

Isn't that the point of internet fora? To air one's views and share gossip?

Start your post with either IMHO or IMO, thens its a view, otherwise could be a statement of fact and thats is in my humble opinion.

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Heard a nasty little rumour today - don't know how true it is but...

But that wasn't opinion, it was sharing information. In a proper context and clearly labeled as requiring a pinch of salt.

I can only wish the Daily Mail was so open about it's rumour mongering and speculative "journalism"!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by tinker

Start your post with either IMHO or IMO, thens its a view, otherwise could be a statement of fact and thats is in my humble opinion.

I was using the internet before all this silly jargon started - I am not going to change just to fit in.

I entered the word rumour in bold text - thought that would be clear enough for most people!!!

[Jono]

Originally Posted by malthouse

Isn't that the point of internet fora?..

So you think it’s OK to spread rumours that cast aspersions on a businesses ethics do you? Would you be happy if I started spreading “nasty” rumours that your business has a habit of sharp practices?
I don’t think so and as for Codders..for someone who decries the poor standard of tabloid journalism to use the defence of “they do it too” is unbelievable…

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Jono

So you think it’s OK to spread rumours that cast aspersions on a businesses ethics do you? Would you be happy if I started spreading “nasty” rumours that your business has a habit of sharp practices?
I don’t think so and as for Codders..for someone who decries the poor standard of tabloid journalism to use the defence of “they do it too” is unbelievable…

Ahh but I have never seen you attack the tabloids..............

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Jono

So you think it’s OK to spread rumours that cast aspersions on a businesses ethics do you? Would you be happy if I started spreading “nasty” rumours that your business has a habit of sharp practices?
I don’t think so and as for Codders..for someone who decries the poor standard of tabloid journalism to use the defence of “they do it too” is unbelievable…

We are talking about a business that has gone bust!!!

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by Jono

So you think it’s OK to spread rumours that cast aspersions on a businesses ethics do you? Would you be happy if I started spreading “nasty” rumours that your business has a habit of sharp practices?

If you read past the first seven words of that post I think I make my views clear and answer your question in advance:

"Isn't that the point of internet fora? To air one's views and share gossip?

So long as no one gets called names or damaging statement are spread with malice, Codders made it pretty clear that it was hear say he was passing on."

One of the reasons I make the nature of my business known on this forum is that I am happy for people to comment on the level of service they get, I would like to think that people would contact me in private before making any accusations and I also trust John's judgement when it comes to people ranting and raving with ill intent.

Obviously no, I would not be happy if you started spreading wild rumours about my business. But then if I had just declared myself bankrupt I would expect there to be a few frenzied opinions thrown around the place, especially if I employed people.

You may also like to note that my post was a question: "Isn't that the point of internet fora....?" I take it that your think not, in which case a no followed by your reasons would be the polite thing to do.

The state of the economy and the marine industry in particular has everyone on edge at the moment, so why don't we all try to take things at face value. If someone has heard a bit of news/rumour/gossip that might help us prepare for what is to come then great, so long as no one gets abused or insulted in the process it would be good to get the heads up and share some of the theories.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Ahh but I have never seen you attack the tabloids..............

..WTF has that got to do with it?

I deplore the gutter press as it happens... but I was pointing out your hypocrisy in criticising their poor standards and then offering them as defence?

Originally Posted by codprawn

We are talking about a business that has gone bust!!!

…but you indicated that they (albeit under a different identity, we must assume) are going to continue trading. Make your mind up.

Originally Posted by codprawn

….. and will be buying the moulds back - a cheap way to relocate perhaps? Bridgend too far away from the South Coast?….

[Jono]

Originally Posted by malthouse

.... If someone has heard a bit of news/rumour/gossip that might help us prepare for what is to come then great, so long as no one gets abused or insulted in the process it would be good to get the heads up and share some of the theories.

Go on..explain how Codders's little gem will prepare you for "what's to come".. I'm all ears.

So you think accusing someone of deliberately going bust to avoid paying redundancy etc is not either defamatory or insulting?

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by Jono

Go on..explain how Codders's little gem will prepare you for "what's to come".. I'm all ears.

So you think accusing someone of deliberately going bust to avoid paying redundancy etc is not either defamatory or insulting?

The thought that a company may have considered going bust rather than facing the prospect of relocating is very telling, or am I reading too much into it? If true then it means they think there is still a market for new builds out there and that by reinventing themselves they might be able to meet a demand, a demand that I have to say most people seem to think is shrinking fast.

IMHO The suggestion is probably groundless, just the inevitable sour grapes that get burst when a manufacturer goes bust leaving customers and staff in the lurch. To say more would be to enter into potentially damaging and insulting speculation, so I shall delete what I just typed.

The whole point of Codders post was that he was not accusing anyone of anything, he was passing on some possible insight based on what he felt was a useful bit of info. The suggestion was well framed, in my view.

Where is the marine industry going and does sharing information help us to answer the question?

Raymarine issued a profit warning and their shares are now worth less than a tea bag, this is very useful info; discuss.

[Doug Stormforce]

I can think of several Solent based sailing schools and charter companies that went into voluntary receivership, only to be bought by effectivly the same people that went bust.

In each case they have used it as a way of wiping off their debts, I perosnally have lost from this twice as an unpaid creditor only to see the business up and running again under effectivly the same managment and ownership in weeks.

Ethics wise I think its atrocious, however the law allows limited companies to do it. Its exactly why banks and some buinesses ask directors to personally secure business loans aginast there own house.

All that aisde their is nothing to say that this is the case here.

[PeterM]

Have read this thread with interest so thought I'd dive in . Codders clearly said it was a rumour so lets treat it as such unless anyone can definatley say its not or it is. Unfortunatley it is common for business to go under as a way to avoid debt (anyone heard about a few banks doing this ?) and lets all remember that business is there to make money and when under pressure the drive to do that can mean that morals go out the window. ( rightly or wrongly)

I do feel for employees , but life today means no job is 'safe'. I feel more for people who have handed over cash & have nothing as they have worked hard, decided to spend money on something nice ,& may get nothing. By nice I mean something they know they will enjoy using & owning, will not make any - infact will cost a load of money , but that money will/should help keep the UK marine industry going.

Hopefully the assets will be bought by someone who can make a living ( whatever that may be) by making nice RIBS.

I'm off now before I get 'flamed' or whatever the jargon is. IMHO - (at least I know what it means now) these things happen - anyone drive/ remember Rover ? , I'll also stick to real words like ' rumour' & 'shame' / 'over reaction' !

[Bigmuz7]

1 Codders thanks for the info
2 Jono get off your damned high horse again
3 Doug stormforce - your damned right, phoenixing is damned crime and its cost me a lot of money, just watching people walk away cutting off their debts like a limb is a real scunner, heres a question though .. if they came back and offered you more business, whilst telling you to 'charge a bit more' seeing as you lost out last time, would you do it ?
4 This thread reminds me why I like this forum so much

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

2 Jono get off your damned high horse again

..... why? I think spreading unsubstantiated rumour is wrong..even if you don't.

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

3 Doug stormforce - your damned right, phoenixing is damned crime ..:

So is "splashing" and I see that Doug lists a Leeway as one of his boats.. but I suppose you think that's fine too? Funny.. but when your affected it's a crime ..when someone else is it's "no skin off my nose" attitude time...
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.....all said whilst firmly seated on my Horse.

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by Jono

..... why? I think spreading unsubstantiated rumour is wrong..even if you don't.





So is "splashing" and I see that Doug lists a Leeway as one of his boats.. but I suppose you think that's fine too? Funny.. but when your affected it's a crime ..when someone else is it's "no skin off my nose" attitude time...
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.....all said whilst firmly seated on my Horse.

Judging by the lack of replies on a fast moving thread Jono .. no one else was sure where you were going with that one either .. feel free to refine your aim, perhaps dismounting might assist

[Downhilldai]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

..... no one else was sure where you were going with that one either ..

Jono's probably gone for his tea

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

Jono's probably gone for his tea

If he comes back and says he's just had steak, I'll be up all night posting

[The Garfish]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

If he comes back and says he's just had steak

dat bigg borld heddid bastud az probubly et iz orse orr a coww forr iz tee wiv a jakk danyels snifta.

noww heel bee sleapin itt orf. hee orlwaiys sleaps lyke a baybee

waiks up tenn tymes a nite an shitts imself twise.

Garf

[codprawn]

Garf Garf Garf what would we do without you?

So good they named him thrice!!!

[Doug Stormforce]

Originally Posted by Jono

I think spreading unsubstantiated rumour is wrong...

Hi JONO

I totally agree with you.

Originally Posted by Jono

I see that Doug lists a Leeway as one of his boats.. but I suppose you think that's fine too? Funny.. but when your affected it's a crime ..when someone else is it's "no skin off my nose" attitude time...

This is probably going a bit off topic and has been discussed / argued before. I don’t want to re-open that case. I don’t think however it’s the same thing as ripping of staff, customers and suppliers that you have dealt with on a day to day basis, asked favours from, gone for many a pint with and made promises to.

Going bust intentionally and then buying your own business from the receivers and scoring for yourself, while seeing people you made promises to loose out is pretty low in my book.

However I suspect you are right, many of us judge the things that affect us and those close to us differently from things that happen too those we have never met or are unaware of.

As I said in my last post this is no reflection on Picton or it directors / owners.


HI BIGMUZ

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

3 Doug stormforce - your damned right, phoenixing is damned crime and its cost me a lot of money, just watching people walk away cutting off their debts like a limb is a real scunner, heres a question though .. if they came back and offered you more business, whilst telling you to 'charge a bit more' seeing as you lost out last time, would you do it ?
:

Well that was the promise at the time. They said “We will make sure none of regular suppliers/instructors loose out”. However that was never the case for me. They soon found new instructors/suppliers who they owed nothing to, who would work for less and would extend credit. Since then my business has grown and more recently they have come to me asking for service/charter. Our industry is small so you can’t harbour grudges all your life, you just learn from experience and try not to be so naive.

So in answer to your question, YES I do now deal with them from time to time, however they don’t get the same price I give to others, they don’t get the favours and most importantly they don’t get the referrals that would have been and will be worth tens of thousand so of pounds more than the rip off.

Oh! and of course they have to pay up front now.