Helmets-all or nothing.?

[Rogue Wave]

My Uncle was dying of cancer and his was given 3 months to live by his Doctor a young fitness fanatic. 2 weeks later my Uncle went to his Doctor's funeral who died of brain damage. The Doctor was riding his push bike at night and rode into the back of an unlit transit parked on the road. The Doc went in head first over the handle bars and his cycle helmet failed to save him cos he was going kwite kwiklee! So I wouldn't reckon one for a high speed accident on a one ton boat travelling at thirty knots plus

When you throw yourself off your boat into the water if your lucky you will do just that and apart from the risk of breaking your neck you won't hurt your head too much. The problem is when you collect something on the way out of the boat or fail to leave the boat.n you are looking at some possible serious impact and consequent injury to yourself. ( I unfortunately have first hand experience of this when I damaged my knee as it landed on and snapped the throttle) I couldn't walk at all for about 10 days and it took 5 months to repair! My overiding thought however was thank fkk it wasn't my eye that hit the throttle! Although an eye patch might look Kinda cool it's inconvenient

I have also hit the console with my head twice , both times when I was looking at a GPS. Firt time high speed big sea with a helmet on didn't feel a thing. Second time not such a big sea, no helmet didn't feel a thing ( I had taken the precaution of taking an anaesthetic befor the trip ) but lost a crown. So for me it is either a full face helmet or nothing!

[limeydal]

RW thanks for the feedback.
Yep it rains here. We saw some 6 months ago and rumour has it that could rain again just after Christmas
I do wear a nice pair of amber ski goggles that are great for misty weather.Seem to really help in poor visibility and very comfortable.
So think Santa's budget can extend to the $40.00 to try out the helmet.Think the Gath and Gecko run a bit pricier!
Have to admit the Gecko setup is nice but have to weigh it against the use it will get. Also, as most of our season is very mild,I think the ventilation in the helmet will help.
Damn, doesn't come in orange though
cheers Dal
PS thanks Missus; Cyfarchion y Tymor (seasons Greetings from us )

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Jon Brooks

D S Developments have just launched a comms unit to fit the Gath helmet, I have yet to try it out.

Hope that helps a bit

Regards

Is it as expensive as all of their other stuff or more reasonably priced?

[Jon Brooks]

Dal

Whilst we all work to a budget, you can't put a price on safety!
The Gecko or Gath might cost you more but you will save in the long run.

God forbid you have a Rouge type trip the cost for the medical bill will out way the cost of the Helmet.

Do not be tempted to use a motor cycle helmet or simular.
These are not designed for marine use and are built for different impacts etc.
The main one is that a marine helemt is designed to deal with bucketing.
This is the effect that wter has as it rushes into the helmet if you enter the water at speed.
The marine helmet chin straps and visor should give way under the stress of bucketing, a motor cycle helmet won't.

The result? broken neck...death!!!

Just thought I would lighten then the mood

Would aslo agree that the helmet your looking at it not designed for high speed impacts so would offer no protection at all if you fall out of you boat at any speed or had a high speed impact with the boat itself.


Regards

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Jon Brooks

Dal

Whilst we all work to a budget, you can't put a price on safety!
The Gecko or Gath might cost you more but you will save in the long run.

God forbid you have a Rouge type trip the cost for the medical bill will out way the cost of the Helmet.

Do not be tempted to use a motor cycle helmet or simular.
These are not designed for marine use and are built for different impacts etc.
The main one is that a marine helemt is designed to deal with bucketing.
This is the effect that wter has as it rushes into the helmet if you enter the water at speed.
The marine helmet chin straps and visor should give way under the stress of bucketing, a motor cycle helmet won't.

The result? broken neck...death!!!

Just thought I would lighten then the mood

Regards

Not sure if that was addressed to me as well, but I was asking about the DS gear not the helmets - we use Gecko full face in the race boat, although there are rumours that we won't be next season!

[Jon Brooks]

No John not at you.

Just general comments on helmets.
Stuff that most don't think about or know about.
I have only picked it up over the last year or so from working closely with Gecko and Comunica

The D S helmets are the Gecko MK10.

So can you tell us what they are planning for next year or is that hush hush?

Regards

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Jon Brooks

No John not at you.

Just general comments on helmets.
Stuff that most don't think about or know about.
I have only picked it up over the last year or so from working closely with Gecko and Comunica

The D S helmets are the Gecko MK10.

So can you tell us what they are planning for next year or is that hush hush?

Regards

When we were in Cowes this year, I had some old fart of a scrutineer make me sign a disclaimer before I went out on the Sunday - I could knock my head off any other day!

Since then I have been told that the RYA are going to ban them and that Gecko are out of business ............ I havn't got round to checking any of this out so it's all hearsay and rumour at this stage ........... time will tell!

By the way I like the Geckos, they are lighter than a motorbike helmet, and work just as well when you stuff it at 60mph!

[Louise]

Originally Posted by Cookee

Since then I have been told that the RYA are going to ban them and that Gecko are out of business ............ I havn't got round to checking any of this out so it's all hearsay and rumour at this stage ........... time will tell!

Check out the Safety Officer's Report in the 'Committee Meeting Minutes' on page 4 of the latest issue of Riblines - BS6658A standard is to be mandatory next year (ie. motorcycle standard). HTH.

[Jon Brooks]

Originally Posted by Louise

Check out the Safety Officer's Report in the 'Committee Meeting Minutes' on page 4 of the latest issue of Riblines - BS6658A standard is to be mandatory next year (ie. motorcycle standard). HTH.

For me this would be a major safety worry re bucketing.
Hell I don't race so does not effect me really.

I would suggest all of you that do raise some major safety concerns.

This smacks of people who don't know their subject very well!!!

Regards

[Louise]

Jon, I think the decision to change the requirement was made by the RYA, following the K class accident (although not necessarily because of that accident) and subsequent recommendations made in the MAIB report.

I guess the ideal scenario would be that Gecko (or any helmet manufacturer) designed a helmet which combined the anti-bucket properties of a Gecko/marine helmet with BS6658A. Don't know enough about the topic to know if that's possible though!

[Rogue Wave]

ey up lad Komitee has spoken! but I guess the reaon for the rool change might be this statement from the MCA.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/4180590.stm

I am interested in your comments Jon , as they make some sense to me, however last time I looked Zap cats were all running round in Bike type helmets as were the four stroke nobbers and most other racers.

I guess you can have it both ways it's either a broken neck or a fractured skull!

reminds me of a scene from Yes PM where hacker was prepping for broadcast and asked whether or not he should were specs

Humphrey said on you look dilligent and harsh off you look casual and honest

Hacker says I'd like to look dilligeent and honest

humphrey says it's one or the other I am afraid PM

Bernard pipes up with a classic phrase "what about a monocle"

[Jon Brooks]

Having read and looked into the K class accident and the resulting MIAB it would seem it was thought that the problem was that the "one size fits all" covered children as well.
Which it did not.
I know that Gecko have now removed this statment.

This would seem a knee jerk reaction if it only down to this.

The motor cycle spec IMHO is wrong for marine use.
There is already, I understand, a BS spec for marine helmets but hey what do I know I am just superradioman!
If I was racing I would be jumping up and down over this!

Regards

[Louise]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

ey up lad Komitee has spoken!

Stu, I know you only meant this as a joke but just so there are no misconceptions, the BIBOA safety officer was reporting a decision taken by the RYA. The BIBOA general committee did not take part in the decision-making process, although some BIBOA members are racers and so may have been involved at some stage. I don't know enough about the racing side of things to comment further.

[Louise]

Originally Posted by Jon Brooks

it would seem it was thought that the problem was that the "one size fits all" covered children as well.

I agree that this was one of the main concerns but not the only one: the following is quoted from the report which states that the Gecko helmet "was not designed for those partaking in high speed powerboat racing, and does not have the impact protection recommended by the RYA for headgear used in that activity."

P.S. I'm not trying to knock Gecko - Richard and I both use them and think they're great! But then we don't race round at 70mph+!

[jwalker]

Just for info, how many hard boat racing nobburs have broken their necks due to their helmet?

[Matt]

Good idea. Let's have a headcount.

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by jwalker

Just for info, how many hard boat racing nobburs have broken their necks due to their helmet?

Good point generally a lot of these so called safety concerns are based on one or two events (lost crowns) and really are the exception as opposed to the rule.
It seems to be the current mania in the UK of worrying about and legislating against smaller and smaller risks and we all loose because of it
The introduction of the compulsory use of seat belts reduced road deaths by about 400 per year (and 7000 injuries p/a) which was significant, but only 22 people drowned in boating related activates (ROSPA 2002). And I’m sure that not all of those had head injuries the risk is so small that it isn’t worth worrying about
When I look at my life my biggest risk is jumping in the car followed by having a heart-attack (it’s me age)so I’m going to buy one of these and stay at home Des

[Rogue Wave]

I ain't gonna be kissing you Des!

Matt Didier Peroni didn't he die from impact injuries in a race

Originally Posted by Louise

Stu, I know you only meant this as a joke but just so there are no misconceptions, the BIBOA safety officer was reporting a deceision taken by the RYA. The BIBOA general committee did not take part in the decision-making process, although some BIBOA members are racers and so may have been involved at some stage. I don't know enough about the racing side of things to comment further.

Hi Louise, no joke about the komitee , not aimed at BIBOA just komitees in general. I can't really comment on BIBOA as I am not, and am unlikely to be, a member (especially after this post )

Don't forget, at heart, I'm a non conforming renegade, which is why I took to the water, for the freedom it offered so organised things don't do a lot for me!


Moving back to thehHelmets, Jon am not, for once, I am in agreement with you (well it is the seaon of goodwill ) but there is definitely a need for a helemet that doesn't break your neck and lets you survive a fifty MPH impact with a steering wheel. If the RNLI use Gecko's then presumably they have been tested and approved to 35 knots ish.

These bloody Americans can start a war anywhere can't they!

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

I ain't gonna be kissing you Des!

Not what you said last night

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

....Don't forget, at heart, I'm a non conforming renegade,....

But you are conforming to worrying about nothing which is the current mass hysteria in the UK What happened to all the drugs you could take, a fast bike, no helmet and the open road

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

....but there is definitely a need for a helemet that doesn't break your neck .....

It really isn’t an issue if you can only think of one person who might have broken their neck How many people do you know who have had car accidents Yet you don’t say we should have cars that don’t crash Des

[Jon Brooks]

Des

I think it is a major worry.
There were only 22 boating related deaths, thank god.
Still 22 to many.
Compared the huge number of road deaths its great info but...

would you want to wear a helmet that could have the potential to snap your neck like a twig if you went into the water at speed?

I know I would not and am sure many other feel the same.

We may just have been lucky so far that the right, if that's the best choice of words, crash has not happened to cause death by head injury or bucketing.
I don't want to be the first, not the best thing to have on your tomb stone.

Whilst it wonderful for Stu and I to be in agreement I don't want to kiss him either!

Regards